Abortion questions...?

Don't know where you're from, but in the U.S., most states ban third trimester abortions with certain exceptions. Society most definitely has not put the line at birth.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

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We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

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...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

As a Christian I find your idea that anyone is comfortable about an abortions appalling.Very few abortions are simply done to remain comfortable. It is a traumatic decision and not taken lightly.If you are really concerned about abortions then start a movement to adopt any and all unwanted children and raise them until at least age eighteen.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

And begin education programs that teach kids how to avoid pregnancy.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

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We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

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...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

Amen ... Preach the Gospel!!Teach the kids how to use a condom, alternate sex practices, other birth control methods, what is involved in parenting, what responsibility means. And start the education early before the hormones kick in.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

That was the point of my joke with oni about soul math. If a "person" begins when the soul enters, then it's important to know when the soul enters.Do the sperm and egg cells have half-souls that unite?Or is the soul "implanted" by God at some point in time? If so, when is that point? At conception? In the second trimester? At birth? At circumcision? (In which case, when do girls receive their souls?) At the bar/bat mitzvah?Edited by ringo, : fixed CapitalizatioN.

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

Oh come on. I realize you hate everything christian, but you don't have to be such a jerk and smear people.Do you honestly believe that the main reason for protesting abortion is to make the mother feel like shit because of dislike? Physician, heal thyself! Acutally, that's the liberal way. But I suppose that's another topic.

Did I say that was the main reason? No, but that is effectively what happens. Why else do they need the posters of dead babies? Why else do they harass people who are entering the facility? How am I smearing anyone? I simply stated what it was that they do. If it is a "smear", then take that up with them. I did not embellish or make anything up.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

You said that's why they do it. They believe that abortion is murdering a human soul. They're trying to convince the abortioners that they shouldn't be doing it. They're trying to sway them away from it. You say: "They don't do these good things, they do these bad things!" You made up the motivation for their behavior to make them look worse.

Hi oni, AGIYou did notice in your quote that there are 3 states in the US that do not report abortions. You did also notice that the reporting is voluntary.You did notice you used worldwide numbers for starvation.Yet you used the smallest number you could find for abortions and then only used the numbers for the US less those who do not report.Worldwide the numbers I find for abortions range from 42 million to 48 million per year. Simple you were trying to make abortions look like a lot less took place than those that starve to death each year.28 children dying from starvation every minute is atrocious.75 to 85 aborted births per minute is atrocious.The 28 deaths from stravation is the hardest to control because all the food given to help is controled by adults that put themselves first.The abortions could simply be controled by preventive means that is available to most everyone. One method of prevention available to everyone, is just say no.We could argue about when life begins to try to justify abortion but that is a fruitless argument.I have read much at EvC about that argument. Some say when the brain is not functioning life does not exist.So when did the first life form on earth begin to exist? Was it when that first single cell life form had a functioning brain? I just thought I would throw that in as food for thought.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

But shouldn't they then be able to explain exactly when the soul enters the situation?Ringo was more specific a few posts above, so maybe you cold help us understand when exactly does the soul come into play - do the sperm and egg have half each? What happens for twins? Is it when the zygote is formed that God implants it? Embryo? Fetus? When it is actually born? During whatever religious ritual that takes place after birth? (ie. a baptism, etc.)If there was an exact time when it does happen, it would help to know that. Anything before would be an acceptable time to terminate, and everything after could be off limits.- Oni

This is where the Golden Rule comes in again. It isn't so much how they want the women to feel; it's how they do make the women feel. It's akin to protesting the war by going to soldiers' funerals and calling them baby-killers. It has more to do with venting than with constructive criticism.

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

There is a critical difference between the dying children of Africa, and aborted foetuses. For a christian, both are humans deserving to live. The differene is a social one: you don't have to convince anyone that dying children in africa is wrong, 99% of people think it is. SO it serves no point in parading in the streets tryign to convince people of something they already agree with you.Which is different with abortion, because even before we can fix a problem, we have to agree wether or not there is a problem.And don't worry, christians (I would hope) do their part for the poor in this world, although it probably it isn't half of what they should be doing, I still feel it's more then the average person.

For what? For religious beliefs? Come on... I don't know when. A common christian belief is that life begins at conception. I suppose its that since "a life" would require a soul, then the soul begins at conception.Yeah, this posses a conundrum for twins. I guess its just magic Maybe the soul becomes two souls. I think they place that at conception.My views on the soul are different and unimportant here.

Oh but come on, some people do feel absolutely comfortable with it. How then could they be at their 10th abortion ? or 15th ?I'm not saying this is a majority of people, but it is certainly present. I try to do my part in this world. And even though I am part of a small christian community, we already have over 1 million dollars invested in Haiti (since before the disaster, obviously). And we also support a home made for young women who want to keep their child instead of aborting it, where they have support from professionals.Don't think I'm concerned only in words with these things.

Then they are wrong. Also, please provide the link, as I did.In any case, the CDC trumps whatever is said on AGI since they are the official government entity that works specifically to gather the numbers. Yes, so then ask yourself at that point, how on earth could AGI have those extra numbers if they weren't reported to the CDC? That's a load of crap. Perhaps they're just making crap up? Well if you followed my point, it was concerning people in the US that want to control only abortions in the US. But, have no concern for anyone else outside of our borders. So they aren't PRO-LIFE, they are hypocrites who are only pro-control of US citizens.My point was also to show that there should be a greater global concern for living human beings who are dying of starvation and malnutrition, who's numbers (both children and adult combined) reach the billions, rather than being concerned with 820,000 abortions that are done legally and by choice.No one is making the choice to die of starvation or malnutrition, those people need help -vs- an adult who makes an actual legal choice concerning their own body. And yet pro-life people are only concerned in controlling the 820,000 that take place in the US. You're all a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites.There are more people starving to death in Africa alone than abortions in the US. If you are really pro-life, then you should be pro-ALL life. Also, think about what the global starvation numbers are - why should we continue to add more unwanted human beings to that number? And they are, because your only concern is with the 820,000 that take place in the US. Yet you show no concern in the media for those living human beings globally that die each year from simply not having something to eat.Your priorities are ridiculous and you should be ashamed. Yes, now to that add the adults that die each year. No it is not, it is a stupid argument because life never stops existing.Maybe you can take up the question of when the soul arrives - do the sperm and egg(haploids) have half each? Does it form when they unite to form a zygote? Further down the line when it becomes an embryo? A fetus? At birth? When exactly?Some say conception. Ok, but if it's when the zygote forms, then all you have is two haploids that are sperm and egg, so the destruction of the sperm and egg would also be viewed as bad...but it is not. So where is the consistency here?There is no consistency from your side of the argument. But hopefully, as easy as you understood complex physics and cosmology without ever taking any courses in it, you can figure this out for us. It should be very easy for a man of your genius.
- Oni