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Author Topic:   Abortion questions...?
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 361 of 403 (603142)
02-02-2011 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by Coragyps
02-02-2011 5:56 PM


Maybe in Quebec. In Texas you can't drive down a major highway or look in the Yellow Pages without seeing ads for "abortion alternatives."
Well, are there alternatives or are there not ? I mean, throughout this thread people have been saying that the right to abortion is required or else the woman will either ilegally abort so they don't get stuck with a child they can't feed, or will get stuck with a child they can't feed.

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 362 of 403 (603143)
02-02-2011 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by subbie
01-26-2011 4:41 PM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
Ramen.
It's far from clear from what you said, so I'll just ask; do you favor educating children about safe sex?
Sorry subbie I skipped your post without seeing it.
Of course I am in favor for educating children on sex. But this needs to be done in the right way.
Because I think the reasoning abotu sexual education is a bit flawed. As a society, we teach someone something when we judge that he is ready to do the thing. We teach you how to drive at 16, when we judge you are ready to actually drive. We don't teach you to drive at 12 in case you steal your parents car, well at least you'll know how the steering wheel works. We do this for pretty much everything in society.
But oddly, we don't think the same thing about sex. We teach them how to do it at an age we all know they are not ready to do it, but we teach them anyways ''just in case they do it''. This is the opposite of every other area of life.

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 363 of 403 (603149)
02-03-2011 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by slevesque
02-02-2011 10:40 PM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
We teach them how to do it at an age we all know they are not ready to do it, but we teach them anyways ''just in case they do it''.
Why do you think they're not "ready to do it", when a substantial number (if indeed not a majority) are "doing it"? Are they post-puberty or not? It wasn't all that long ago that 15-year-olds were getting legally married. Having sex is something they're perfectly capable of, and frequently completely ready to do. If they have the capacity, knowledge, and foresight to use birth control - and the majority of sexually-active teens do - there's really no basis to conclude that they're not "ready" for sexual activity. Most of your perspective is just sexual panic and typical adult patronization of teenagers, IMO.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 364 of 403 (603150)
02-03-2011 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by slevesque
02-02-2011 10:40 PM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
As a society, we teach someone something when we judge that he is ready to do the thing.
When is the best time to teach kids about gun safety? Before or after they have been hunting every weekend with their friends? Or do we tell them that the best way to hunt safely is not to hunt at all?

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 365 of 403 (603151)
02-03-2011 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by slevesque
02-02-2011 10:30 PM


I mean, throughout this thread people have been saying that the right to abortion is required or else the woman will either ilegally abort so they don't get stuck with a child they can't feed, or will get stuck with a child they can't feed.
It's not a hypothetical situation. It was the reality prior to Roe v. Wade. Even in ancient Rome there were apothecaries that sold potions that were supposed to cause miscarriages. I believe there was even mention of such potions in the Bible, but I could be wrong about that.
And it goes beyond the ability to feed a child. Young single mothers are at a serious disadvantage compared to their childless peers. On top of that, they are ostracized and socially stigmatized, especially by the conservative portion of the population that is also stridently pro-life. Do you really think that the only reason women seek abortions is that they are a little low on cash?

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 366 of 403 (603152)
02-03-2011 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Taq
02-03-2011 12:28 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
you teach gun safety when you judge he is ready to use a gun.
Certainly, you don't let your children go hunting when you don't think he is ready

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 Message 364 by Taq, posted 02-03-2011 12:28 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Taq, posted 02-03-2011 2:15 AM slevesque has replied
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 367 of 403 (603153)
02-03-2011 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by crashfrog
02-03-2011 12:24 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
Hey, I'm just 21. No adult patronization here.
At what age do they teach sexual education in the US ?
Because I learnt it in 6th grade. Which is too early in my opinion. In my final 6th grade year, after they taught sex.ed. (which was around march), many girls in my class were losing their virginity with high school guys. What age are you in 6th grade, like 11-12 I think ?
I'm all for sex.ed. at around 15-16 personnally.

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4269 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 368 of 403 (603155)
02-03-2011 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by slevesque
02-03-2011 12:40 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
The problem with your idea is that many children of 11-12 are already into puberty. There would be even more sexual encounters without sex ed. One doesn't normally learn how, for the first time, in sex ed. Most 11-12 year olds already know how.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 369 of 403 (603157)
02-03-2011 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by bluescat48
02-03-2011 1:38 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
The problem with your idea is that many children of 11-12 are already into puberty.
Being into puberty does not mean someone is ready to have sexual intercourse. Unless you believe otherwise.
here would be even more sexual encounters without sex ed. One doesn't normally learn how, for the first time, in sex ed. Most 11-12 year olds already know how.
I didn't know at that age. As I said, from my personal experience, sex.ed at that age seemed to pretty directly cause the first sexual experiences for those in my class, particularly the girls, since we learned it in march and it was after that that we started hearing that such and such a girl in our class had slept with a high schooler.
As I said, sexual education is the sole thing that we teach before we think they are ready to actually do it. We teach people how to drive when we feel they are ready to drive, we teach them how to use a gun when we feel they are ready to use a gun, we teach them how to use a drill when we think they are ready to use a drill, etc. etc.
We don't teach them before that, just in case they steal a car, or they stumble upon a gun. What's different about sexuality ? What is wrong in teaching them at the age we judge they are ready to ? Obviously, if you think that age is 12, then I understand why you are for sex.ed at that age.
Besides, it's a bit like a vicious circle. Who tells the 5th graders how it works ? The 6th graders. And if we start teaching it to the 5th graders, they'll start telling it to 4th graders.
Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 370 of 403 (603158)
02-03-2011 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by slevesque
02-03-2011 12:36 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
you teach gun safety when you judge he is ready to use a gun.
Certainly, you don't let your children go hunting when you don't think he is ready
When you think they are ready and when they start firing weapons may not be the same. That's the point.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 371 of 403 (603159)
02-03-2011 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by Taq
02-03-2011 2:15 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
When you think they are ready and when they start firing weapons may not be the same. That's the point.
Yes I know that's the point. But why does this logic strictly apply to sex ? Why does in every other aspect of life, we view it as better to teach them something when they are ready ?
We're not teaching our kids to drive at 13 years old, even if some do steal their parent's car at that age. Why don't we teach them, ''just in case they steal the car'' ?
Certainly, you don't teach you son to fire a gun at 10 years old, just in case he stumbles upon it. You teach him at whatever age you feel he is ready, and only at that age do you also let him go hunting with his friends, after you have showed him how to shoot.
Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3722 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 372 of 403 (603163)
02-03-2011 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by slevesque
02-03-2011 2:05 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
I didn't know at that age. As I said, from my personal experience, sex.ed at that age seemed to pretty directly cause the first sexual experiences for those in my class
Then you and your class must live in some kind of isolation bubble!! Did you and your peers live apart from TV, girls magazines, pornography, older siblings, older friends, etc, etc. And you lay the blame on sex-ed???? It does seem rather obvious that you grew up in a Christian household...

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4269 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 373 of 403 (603164)
02-03-2011 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by slevesque
02-03-2011 2:05 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
My point is that those who are into puberty need to to know the consequences of their actions. There was no sex ed when I was in school and there were several pubescent girls in my 5th grade class who had already lost their virginity. Relying on the old wives tales that a girl can't get pregnant the first time or that they can't get pregnant standing up. That is what I mean by sex ed is needed in the 5th/6th grade to help prevent such nonsense.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by slevesque, posted 02-03-2011 2:05 AM slevesque has not replied

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4719 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 374 of 403 (603165)
02-03-2011 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by cavediver
02-03-2011 3:37 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
Then you and your class must live in some kind of isolation bubble!! Did you and your peers live apart from TV, girls magazines, pornography, older siblings, older friends, etc, etc. And you lay the blame on sex-ed???? It does seem rather obvious that you grew up in a Christian household...
I'm not saying the others didn't know what sex was or how it was done before sex.ed.
What I'm really thinking is that there may be a real causal link between teaching a child how to do something, and after that him linking it with therefore he is ready to do it, either consciously or sub-consciously.
I guess this could be a research hypothesis for someone in psychology.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2374 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 375 of 403 (603167)
02-03-2011 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by slevesque
02-03-2011 3:50 AM


Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
Do you at least agree that "abstinence only" sex-ed (whenever it is given) is bad?

This message is a reply to:
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