Abortion questions...?

So...if the Nazis didn't enjoy cruelty when they slaughtered nearly 30 million russians and 12 million victims of the holocaust (Jews, Gypsies, commies, so on), would they have deserved to be left off the hook?

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Sigh... Now it's pretty clear that you're not the one worth replying to, if, in your mind, the disposal of a few unwanted puppies is an act morally equivalent to the Holocaust.

...yet you replied I'm not saying that the Holocaust is only as bad as getting rid of puppies. Of course it is ironic that if a group of people are believed to be less than human (i.e animal) they can suffer cruelty that animals suffer as well (Jews where said to be not even human in Nazi Germany. And like multiple animnal species, they where targeted for extinction.)I'm asking YOU a question: is it okay to be cruel if you dont enjoy cruelty? Whether cruelty to humans or cruelty to animals, is it okay to be cruel to the extreme if you dont enjoy cruelty??Is it okay to have dog fights in youre back yard and have two pitbulls torn up and scarred if you dont enjoy cruelty?Is it okay to beat youre wife if you dont enjoy cruelty?Is it okay to wipe an entire species of animal out if you dont enjoy cruelty?You have not answered. Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Indeed! Im human and I dont want to admit it lol!

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

It's interesting that you have such a low regard for humanity and such a high regard for fetuses.

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No, that's pretty much exactly what you did say.If that's the moral calculus you subscribe to, Ludo, it's not going to be possible for us to communicate meaningfully. Things that seem obvious to me aren't going to be apparent to you, because to you, the extermination of millions of human beings is exactly the same as drowning some nuisance puppies. Why would anybody do those things if they didn't enjoy cruelty?

I also have high regard for fetuses/varmints/babies outside the womb and some kids as well.Probably one reason is that i've never got kicked in the nuts by a fetus (though a kid kicked me there when I was young), nor have heared of children/fetuses/babies/varmints ramming into buildings with commercial airplanes on purpose, or even canceling Startrek on Television (before my time when it comes to the very first show, but the hurt still lingers...)I've never heared a fetus promoting the metric system or killing out the California Texas and other Grizzlies of the lower states, Cry that fetuses and babies of an unsaved couple or paretn goes to Hell to Give God the glory (as some calvinists i've met believe)and yet say babies dont deserve to die in abortion (double standard, if you think about it.I'll think of some more soon. Hold on a seck...........

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

In case you missed my point completely, I was expressing my dismay at your low regard for the human race in general.One might think that you should be pro-abortion if you're so concerned about the little guys growing up to be terrorists and TV-show-cancellers.But it seems typical of "pro-lifers" that they have an ill-concealed contempt for humanity. This is getting more and more bizarre. You're comparing the metric system with causing extinctions? Are you aware that nearly the whole world uses the metric system?

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No, that's what you want me to have said. I didn't mean to make those acts equal. Man I am Soooooo heartbroken!I dont care if you want to continue this or not. I personally dont want to debate with someone who calls anybody who doesn;t agree with him a bigot, cusses like a sailor, wants to slaughter puppies and the unborn, and ignores or misreads or misinterprets what I write. I never have and never will say that killing puppies is as bad as killing innocent jweish people in the Holocaust. I merely brought up the holocaust because it seems you have no problem with commiting a cruel deed if you dont enjoy cruelty. Does commiting a cruel act irrelevant based on whether you enjoy cruelty or not? Once again, you have not answered. I dont know you tell me.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Maybe you can ask the dead former head of Aushwitz death camp, Rudoplh Hoss. According to "The Great War and the Shaping of the 20th Century" by Jay Winter (WW1 Historian) and Blaine Bagget, page 397, He was no sadist (being cruel and enjoying it, taking pleasure out of cruelty)but was addicted to Obedience. This man oversaw the slaughter and torture of 2 million people at Aushwitz and brutally murdered a former Schoolteacher named Kadow with help by beating him with clubs, shooting him (which Hoss himself did not shoot) and slitting the guy's throat. Yet he became nauseated at seeing concentration camp prisoners lashed with the whip.Go figureEdited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

I tried to add a little humor, that's all. Michael Moore did something similar in his recent book "Dude! where's my country" where he listed the great accomplishments and inventions of the french people, and then added "The Etch-a-sketch" as the pinnacle of them.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Maybe you're just not very good at it. Or maybe abortion is not a good subject to joke about. What makes you think he was joking?

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Boy, I wouldn't want to talk to that guy either.Oh, you meant me! "Slaughter the unborn", huh? What was that last part, in that list of things that disqualify someone in your view from discussion? "Misreads or misinterprets what I write"? Surgeon, heal thyself. And it seems that you have a significant problem determining the moral difference between the disposal of dogs and the extermination of millions of fully-fledged human beings, each with their own minds, their own wills, their own hopes and dreams. Each possessed of that mental "spark", that individuality, that the unborn do not and cannot possess.

Hope you dont talk to yerself..... Yup. No,as i stated (and you perposly ignored) was that I didn't mean to say that I thought that cruelty to animals was just as bad as the cruelty of the holocaust. True, I could have used better words, but since you think it is okay to commit cruelty if you dont enjoy it, where is youre limit. Would you commit cruelty to humans as well as animals if you had no enjoyment of it? If not, youre still a #@%!*. If so, then you're a more frightening #@%!*.And as i stated, when people are believed to be and called nothing more than "mere animals" then they often can suffer the same cruelty that animals suffer (ie extinction). And in the case of the holocaust (and the soviet Gulags) a whole lot more cruelty. If you thought that a particular race or people group where animals and nothing more, you might put those people and their children into bags and chunk them into some river.As for the idea that humans are the only ones with minds; BULLSHIT. I've had numerous dogs in my lifetime, seen nuemrous animal documentaries on animal planet, PBS, Discovery channel and the National Geographic; a whole lot of 'em showed their own wills and minds. My dog has a bigger will than most, if all of the people i've met in my lifetime. They may not have an advanced mind like humans, but dont think for a mere minute that they dont.
Hopes and dreams too? Newborns dont have those. I'd guess you'd want to throw them in a river in a plastic bag with them rocks if you couldn't find someone to have them. Neither do newborns. Some severe mental retarded people might not have them either.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Why would I do it if I didn't enjoy it?Your questions don't make sense, Ludo. They're nonsense. Cruel acts done soley for the enjoyment of cruelty are barbaric. And if a cruel act could have no justification but the enjoyment of cruelty, why would someone do it if they weren't motivated by the enjoyment of cruelty?But if the act has a justification that has nothing to do with the enjoyment of cruelty, that is the justification we must assess. And you're an shithead. Can we dispense with the ad hominem, now? Or do you want to go back and forth a few more times?We might both agree that pulling someone's fingernails off is a cruel act, and that someone who did that because they enjoyed it was a barbaric monster.But also, doctors remove fingernails for a host of medical reasons. There's a potential justification for that act that is sufficient, in the proper context.What sufficient justification do you propose, beyond sadism, for the decision to exterminate Jews, gays, gypsies, and millions of others? The question as you frame it is nonsense, and replying to my objections with a snide "you tell me" is disingenuous, and indicative of your basic dishonesty - indeed, the dishonesty that typifies the majority of the foes of reproductive choice. You're not the only one who's ever seen a dog. I invite you to keep that in mind. I've never looked in the eyes of a dog and seen the mind of an equal. Maybe you do? That doesn't say much for you, I guess. Nontheless, there's a reason why killing an adult, or even a child, is murder; and killing a dog is a property crime at worst. You mean like every human civilization has done for eternity? I don't see a practical need to euthanize the severely retarded. They're not, typically, residing inside a woman's uterus and putting her life at constant risk.This is just another one of your red herrings. It's all but impossible for you to stay on topic, isn't it? I suggest that you either make good on your infantile threat to stop taking to me, or else you start discussing honestly. I'll never stop correcting you where you're wrong, of course. But these dishonest, insulting attacks only draw the bankrupcy of your position into stark relief.