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Author Topic:   healthcare in Canada vs US
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 42 (209981)
05-20-2005 10:04 AM


I was hoping that Ned and any other Canadians here would tell me of their experience with the Canadian healthcare system.
I remember the brouhaha that was raised in the US at the merest suggestion that we move to a more socialized healthcare system.
The biggest objection from many people seemd to be that they feared long waits for care.
Well, Zhimbo and I are in an HMO, and he needed to see a doctor for an immediate (though minor) problem. He had to wait 10 days. He also wanted to get a physical and some bloodwork done. The appointment is in 2 1/2 months. When I go the the Ob/Gyn for the yearly checkup fun I have to plan at least 2-3 months in advance.
Is it like this in Canada?

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 2 of 42 (209982)
05-20-2005 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
05-20-2005 10:04 AM


waiting
The waits for such routine things are nothing like that in my experience. However, long waits do occur and there is work being done to help reduce that.
Some specialties are in short supply and the waits can be long for none urgent cases.
One big difference between here and there is that here everyone has access to reasonable (even dammed good) healthcare. Everyone!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 42 (209990)
05-20-2005 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by NosyNed
05-20-2005 10:15 AM


Re: waiting
I was very impressed during my many visits north of the border to find the number of neighborhood doctors offices exceeded only by doughnut shops.
There is a wealth of misinformation being touted here in the US related to the Canadian (or any other for that matter) health care system. It's common knowledge here that to get an operation you must come to the US and that waiting lines in Canada stretch from coast to coast.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 4 of 42 (209992)
05-20-2005 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
05-20-2005 11:00 AM


going to the US
There are occasions when a particular operation has long waiting lists (knee or hip e.g.) and some patients are sent to the US for those. I don't have statistics on how many. This is paid by the healthcare system.
There are also individuals who are better off who pay for some procedures themselves and to to the US to get it done quicker than it might be available here.
They system is stretched very tight. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Personally I believe that we can not supply all services to all individuals and hae to make some decisions on which will be covered and which not. I am close to a number of people who work in the medical area and know that it does need both more resources and some revamping. We are still IIRC, a couple or more % of GDP less costly than the only partially working US system. A bump in resources of that magnitude would make a big difference to how well the system works here.
Meanwhile, the system works reasonably well, in my own experience and with others in my family and circle of friends who have neeeded care.
If our system left out the percentage of the population that is left out in the US we would consider it utterly broken and more like a thrid world nation than anything else. The rich get care and the poor don't.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5 of 42 (209999)
05-20-2005 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
05-20-2005 10:04 AM


We do complain a lot about the health care system - which is to be expected with anything that is tax-supported. Loud as those complaints may be, though, most Canadians would boast (rightly or wrongly) that our system is better than the US. If it is only the complaints that you are hearing, you are probably not getting an accurate picture.
Since I haven't been hospitalized myself for more than thirty years, I can't comment on the current situation. Of the people that I know who have been hospitalized, there have been very few complaints.

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 6 of 42 (210071)
05-20-2005 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
05-20-2005 10:04 AM


I have no complaints with the healthcare system. I've had two cornea transplants (and am waiting on a third) and seen my doctor, the top cornea guy in the province, on average once a month for the past 8 years all without paying anything more than the standard premiums. I suspect thar if I was in the states I'd be bankrupt. As for wait times, yeah the waits for the tranplants have been over a year but thats dependent on getting good corneas to put in me, not any backlog in the system.

*not an actual doctor

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 42 (210072)
05-20-2005 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
05-20-2005 12:09 PM


which is to be expected with anything that is tax-supported
hahaha. quite right.
If it is only the complaints that you are hearing, you are probably not getting an accurate picture.
well, this is quite the issue. here in the us, we have a LOT of problems. we have people going into a lifetime of debt because medical costs are ridiculous here, and the poorer classes generally don't have insurance. and since we're a country of lawsuits, many people sue the doctors when they can't pay. this drives up doctors' malpractice insurance and the price of medical care. that's what we call a vicious cycle.
and there are other serious problems with the health care system here that NEED to be addressed. a socialized system may in fact be better, but here in america, we think socialism = communism = fascism, and therefor social programs that hinder capitalist gain are also anti-democratic.
but is the medical industry really a place for capitalism? we have lots of other socialist programs like education, welfare and social security. why not health care?

אָרַח

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 8 of 42 (210078)
05-20-2005 6:36 PM


My experience with the American Healthcare system...
We have medical, dental, vision, prescription benefits. This is how much we've had to spend on medical expenses (out of pocket) in the last three weeks:
Me: yesterday went to the doctor for a cough -
Co-pay for family doctor = $25
Co-pay at MRI office for chest x-ray = $25
Chest x-ray = $65 (diagnosed with bronchitis and prescribed antibiotics)
Antibiotic prescription (5-day) = $47
Me: two weeks ago for sinus infection -
co-pay doctor = $25
co-pay MRI office = $25
MRI on sinuses = ? Haven't been billed yet
antibiotics (10-day) = $15
Nasonex = $72 (insurance covered $20 of $92)
Son:
co-pays for three doctor visits for ear infection, re-check, and 3-day fever = $75
antibiotics = $12
Husband:
family doctor co-pay = $25
high blood pressure prescription = $10
TOTAL = $421
That is freaking RIDICULOUS in light of the fact that we have insurance. If we didn't make the amount of money we do, we would be suffering with ear infections, bronchitis, sinus infections, and high blood pressure. We normally don't go to the doctor much, but this has been a bad Spring for us.
We can barely afford to pay our medical expenses with insurance these days. This is what doctors used to cost BEFORE everyone had insurance. It seems to me that doctors know most people have insurance and hike up the prices accordingly - I mean it's not like the people are actually paying these exhorbitant prices out of pocket, right?
Then insurance companies must respond by hiking up their prices and slashing benefits. Remember when co-pays were $5? And everything was included? And prescriptions were $5? HAH!
So here we are again in the same place when we were too poor to afford insurance or our jobs were too crappy to provide it - afraid to get hurt and not going to the doctor unless in absolute misery. If no one had insurance, then doctors could NOT charge as much as they do!
Fuck social security reform! How about fixing the American healthcare crisis, Mr. Bush?!
This message has been edited by roxrkool, 05-20-2005 06:37 PM

Replies to this message:
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 Message 19 by EZscience, posted 05-21-2005 7:36 AM roxrkool has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 42 (210079)
05-20-2005 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by roxrkool
05-20-2005 6:36 PM


It seems to me that doctors know most people have insurance and hike up the prices accordingly
After I graduated college and was no longer covered under my parents health insurance, my dentist started charging half price for everything. Basically, he doubled the charge for people with insurance.

This message is a reply to:
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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 10 of 42 (210089)
05-20-2005 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by roxrkool
05-20-2005 6:36 PM


75% of people that had to declare bankruptcy last year due to medical costs had health insurance.
Not sure if it was Dateline or something like that...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by roxrkool, posted 05-20-2005 6:36 PM roxrkool has replied

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Taqless
Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 11 of 42 (210090)
05-20-2005 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
05-20-2005 6:53 PM


Classic case of the military paying $400 for a hammer. To support your statement further I believe there was some "fleecing of america" thing that showed medicare was being charged alot more than anyone else for things like wheelchairs/oxygen tanks/etc.

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 12 of 42 (210123)
05-20-2005 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
05-20-2005 6:53 PM


That reminds me. I paid $32 for some medication for my son (out of pocket) and that was with insurance convering some of it. A few months later, we were in between insurance companies and had to get the same medication - it was $12. Instead of keeping my mouth shut (in case they made a mistake), I asked them why it was cheaper without insurance. They said it just was. Apparently it has something to do with contract prices.
And that shit is legal? grrr!

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 13 of 42 (210124)
05-20-2005 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taqless
05-20-2005 8:08 PM


My parents had to declare bankruptcy after my mother had double bypass surgery a year and a half ago. A $100,000 bill for two older adults with no insurance, my mom retired, and my father out of work.
My mother blamed herself, once even saying it would have been better had she died. The stress was killing them. Then the doctor would not see my mother for her check-ups unless she paid $100 up front. It took them over a year of harassing phone calls from bill collectors and their kids suggesting bankruptcy before they went ahead and filed for it. Thankfully they did it before the new laws went into effect.
For some people, bankcruptcy is too easy, but for the average hard-working person, bankcruptcy is a very humbling and shameful experience.
Now, with only Social Security checks as their retirement package, they are moving to Mexico where they can afford to live (~$500/month for everything) and see doctors without paying an arm and a leg. In fact, the town they built their house in is full of retired Americans.
This message has been edited by roxrkool, 05-20-2005 11:06 PM

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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6354 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 14 of 42 (210129)
05-20-2005 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by roxrkool
05-20-2005 11:06 PM


What a sad (and horrible) story. When I talk to people over here about my experiences of the US health system when I lived there I've always said 'I wouldn't want to be there if I didn't have insurance'.
I'm not sure how much exaggeration there is but my father tells stories of being in Houston back in the '50s. He was in the Royal Marines and while his unit were there he was assigned as the liason with the local Police in case any of the Royal Marines got into trouble. According to him he went out on patrol with the local cops and when they came across an accident one of the first things they did was check if a casualty was carrying proof of insurance - which determined which hospital they got sent to (the choice was one of the nice shiny expensive ones or the pretty run-down charity one). As an aside he told me that if the victims were black the Police pretty much didn't even bother stopping.

Oops! Wrong Planet

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 15 of 42 (210140)
05-21-2005 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by MangyTiger
05-20-2005 11:36 PM


As far as medical personnel asking you immediately upon arrival whether you have insurance or not and which hospital to go to, that's undeniably true.
I have not been to one ER where the reception nurse was more interested in the nature of my visit than whether I/we had insurance or not. That's no exaggeration.

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