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Author Topic:   A good School.
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 49 (248336)
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


Where's a good college to study philosophy?
If anyone knows a link or anything, I'd appreciate it.
Haven't talked to my Guidance Counselor yet. October 11th grade.

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Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 2 of 49 (248338)
10-02-2005 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


What philosophical questions or areas in philosophy are you looking to study?
UCSD is a really great place to study philosophy of science and philosophy of mind.

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 49 (248342)
10-02-2005 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


Just so you know, the schools of philosophy around the world each year pump out more graduates that would continue on to work in the fastfood industry than any other department.
Cheers!

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 4 of 49 (248474)
10-03-2005 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by coffee_addict
10-02-2005 8:24 PM


Ya know, that's what they said to me about art school. So far, I've done pretty good for myself.
ABE: I think your life is what you make of it, not what you study.
This message has been edited by Yaro, 10-03-2005 10:06 AM

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 49 (248485)
10-03-2005 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


Check out St. John's College
IMHO it would be a great match for your questioning spirit.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 6 of 49 (248496)
10-03-2005 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


Where's a good college to study philosophy?
My bachelors is in Philosophy. Don't listen to Jacen (or whatever he goes by now). You can actually get jobs as much with that degree as any other, as long as you are not looking to enter a technical field. And in fact it could be good if you move on from that into law.
In any case, here is a big piece of advice... don't study just philosophy. Philosophy really is a life long thing. You are a philosopher or you are not. And philosophy is about loving/gaining knowledge.
Unfortunately at this time actual philosophy has been splintered into many subdivisions, with the only useful parts remaining to the discipline titled "philosophy" in an acedemic sense being logic and ethics. The rest is essentially the history of philosophy or ephemeral topics (metaphysics and philosophy of mind stuff) which while fun and practice of logic skills are NOT KNOWLEDGE, it is mental masturbation.
The only useful philosopher is one that can APPLY their skills to real life, to either gain more knowledge or solve problems. The most employable will have some specific skill sets which require technical expertise.
Either take a double major or at the very least pick up a minor in something others would call "practical". It does not reduce your learning philosophy at all, it merely forces you to focus and specialize your skills which is very useful in the long run.
I have no idea what side interests you have, but that's where I'd look for a secondary field. Stay away from English, journalism, or communication, unless you simply want to be a writer. That's not a bad thing, just pointing out that those will focus your writing skills and not your knowledge base.
Personally I recommend hard science or math, maybe even med, or if you really like ethics then poli sci or prelaw.
My minor was sociology plus I took some hard sci courses, then in grad school went full hard sci. The logic skills I learned and the experience of applying those skills which I got in undergraduate school were invaluable. It made me flexible and I excelled at whichever field I went into.
As far as picking a school, you might instead want to look for philosophers working in the areas that interest you and find out where they are teaching. That is pick the school based on the lineup of teachers you'd want to study with, rather than what others say about caliber of school or department. I mean the latter is fine of course, but in the end being in a great department which doesn't teach exactly what you are interested in can end up being counterproductive.
Can I ask what specific areas of philosophy you are interested in?
(AbE: Oh yeah, the most important advice... take any and all opportunities for internships. It gives you real world experience and a network to get more employment later. I did not do this and it cost me at first. The other poster was right that regardless of education your life is what you make of it, but networking is crucial. The best and brightest in any field can get hamstrung if they don't really know others in the field when they start off.)
This message has been edited by holmes, 10-03-2005 10:57 AM

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 7 of 49 (248500)
10-03-2005 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
10-03-2005 10:32 AM


I went there.
Their Santa Fe Campus. It was probably on of the greatest experiences I have had in my life. I HIGHLY recommend it.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 49 (248521)
10-03-2005 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


Keep up the good work
Prophex, I am glad that you are thinking about education!
I have always enjoyed reading about beliefs, rationale, and evidence from many different people on the Internet and here at EvC Forum. The endless go-round between creationists and evolutionists is usually fairly predictable. I ask myself, however, where I stand in the debate? How literal is my thinking? Why is my thinking so literal? To start, I went to search for ideas from other sources. Much of this is found easily on the Internet. We are in an Age of Information and Ideas, after all!
Here are the articles that I read:
An article on A-Priori here at the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. I wanted to get a handle on the historic philosophical definitions.
An article on Biblical Literalism at this website. I have yet to read the professors book. Maybe Brian knows of this man.
Holmes writes:
In any case, here is a big piece of advice... don't study just philosophy. Philosophy really is a life long thing. You are a philosopher or you are not. And philosophy is about loving/gaining knowledge.
I agree with Holmes wholeheartedly on this. BTW what about music? Probably a lifelong thing as well. The more skills, the better. Ask yourself what you want to do, and ask yourself what you want to learn about. Keep up the education. Pray. Commune with God. Don't become narrow minded. Thats my 2 cents. PB
This message has been edited by Phat, 10-03-2005 10:13 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 49 (248522)
10-03-2005 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by coffee_addict
10-02-2005 8:24 PM


alias writes:
Just so you know, the schools of philosophy around the world each year pump out more graduates that would continue on to work in the fastfood industry than any other department.
Is it all about money, Jacen? Most of my friends went after the money. They have large homes and many kids. I never jumped on the treadmill. Now, I work at Safeway at age 46. Do I regret not chasing after money? No way...I love to interact with people and to spread the good word.
Next time that you order a cheeseburger at a fast food restaurant, smile and be humble.
LOL writes:
What philosophical questions or areas in philosophy are you looking to study?
UCSD is a really great place to study philosophy of science and philosophy of mind.
Tell Proph about your experiences at UCSD. I want to hear them also.
This message has been edited by Phat, 10-03-2005 10:20 AM

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 10 of 49 (248632)
10-03-2005 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Silent H
10-03-2005 10:51 AM


quote:
My bachelors is in Philosophy.
[sarcasm]What a surprise.[/sarcasm]

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 49 (248635)
10-03-2005 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
10-02-2005 8:03 PM


One of the best Philosophy programs in the US is at the University of Pittsburgh.
link

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 49 (248637)
10-03-2005 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by coffee_addict
10-02-2005 8:24 PM


quote:
Just so you know, the schools of philosophy around the world each year pump out more graduates that would continue on to work in the fastfood industry than any other department.
I would have thought Art History.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 49 (248641)
10-03-2005 5:13 PM


I have a terrible bias against those who study Philosophy at university.
Maybe it's me, but every single Philosophy student I have ever personally met (there have been several) has been insufferably arrogant, pompous, and looked down their nose at anyone who dares think that everything that comes out of their mouth isn't incredibly profound and deep.

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 14 of 49 (248646)
10-03-2005 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by nator
10-03-2005 4:59 PM


[sarcasm]What a surprise.[/sarcasm]
I hope its not a surprise since I've told you this before, along with my minor being in the social sciences, followed by full bachelors through grad level course work (including beginning thesis work) in two different physical science fields.
The philosophy courses, specifically logic, helped me improve my work immensely and was useful as I worked in interdisciplinary fields within hard science. This is not a joke and has made me come to believe philosophy (specifically logic and analysis, as well as phil of sci) should be part of regular education (perhaps even as early as elementary edu). Without it most analysis is crippled, and many people seem blind to what they are doing.
I am not arguing for philosophy because I majored in it and wish it were useful to understanding things. I am arguing for it because I went on and did many other things quite well and found it invaluable.
If it were wishful thinking based on my background I would also argue that sociology was a valuable field... its has its uses, but it is not the underlying tool of all argument (valuable communication) and knowledge building.
Might I ask what fields you have studied and levels of education you have so that I may laugh?
(okay I came off a little hard. you may be joking but it really isn't a joke. too many people poke fun at it, which leads to a wholesale disregard, when in reality it is the only tool everyone uses except when they are being stupid, ignorant, or artistic (and even the artists will use it sometimes).)
This message has been edited by holmes, 10-03-2005 05:27 PM

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 15 of 49 (248656)
10-03-2005 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by nator
10-03-2005 5:13 PM


Maybe it's me, but every single Philosophy student I have ever personally met (there have been several) has been insufferably arrogant, pompous, and looked down their nose at anyone who dares think that everything that comes out of their mouth isn't incredibly profound and deep.
That's possible. Here are some things to ask yourself:
1) Could it be that you are reacting to their their confidence in debate? Those with less skill often view those with greater skills as being snobbish and arrogant.
2) Were they usually right, regardless of their being pompous? Those who lose debates often view winners as being snobbish and arrogant.
3) What majors don't have a significant characteristic which mark their students as annoying in some way?
4) Could it be that what may seem to be the traits you claim, be that after enough debate with people that analogously cannot add 2+2 (and feel proud of that fact), are reasonably a bit put off and frustrated with most conversations? I know when I talk with people where I don't know the field they often seem how you describe, until I get to the level of their understanding and communication is more free.
Oh and just to let you know, if you lump me into that category, I may have done some interesting work in Phil, but I did not have the extroverted/opinionated personality you see here until after entering grad work in the hard sciences, followed by managerial and contracting work troubleshooting scientists data, procedures, and analyses.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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Replies to this message:
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