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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 240 (404717)
06-09-2007 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by taylor_31
06-08-2007 7:14 PM


Re: thanks everyone
quote:
She insists that because I'm only eighteen that my developing brain is in no position to make decisions about my life.
Er, no.
The general consensus among Psychologists (that's scientists) is that sexuality is pretty much set at around puberty.
If people's brains were "still developing" and we are "in no position to make decisions about our lives" at age 18, why do we let 18 year olds vote, or run for office, or join the workforce, or enlist in the armed forces to die in service to our country?
Why don't you ask her how confused she was about her sexuality when she was 18?
quote:
She gave me several detriments of being a homosexual, which included disease,
Um, straight people get plenty of diseases.
quote:
psychological problems,
Straight people have plenty of psychological problems. the problems that gay people have are generally caused by the pressure of living in a homophobic culture.
quote:
that it's "unnatural",
It isn't unnatural, and even if it was, we all do lots of "unnatural" things.
quote:
and the societal consequences ("You'll be put into a group," she says.)
Everybody is already "in a group". She's in a group, called "bigot". I am sorry to say it to you, becasue I know you love your mom, but it is just true.
She has a lot of bad information about homosexuality that has likely been fed to her through bigots at her church.
quote:
Overall, she told me that I was throwing away everything I have worked for, everything in my life, for a dumb lie.
What lie is that? That homosexuality exists at all, or that you are gay?
You aren't throwing anything away. In fact, it actually sounds like she wants to take it from you.
quote:
She insisted that I'm not gay; she said that I have never dated a girl (and suggested that I lack "people skills") and have no idea what I'm talking about. She insists that I may like girls, but I've been too insecure to date them.
Those are the words of a desperate woman who isn't really thinking about what she's saying.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by taylor_31, posted 06-08-2007 7:14 PM taylor_31 has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 20 of 240 (404848)
06-10-2007 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by macaroniandcheese
06-09-2007 1:53 PM


quote:
your parents love you and think that they know what is best for you. they may or may not. so understand that as hurtful as what your parents say, it is with the best of intentions. now, we all know how useful intentions are. so bear that in mind.
Actually, I will interject here and say that parents don't always have the best of intentions. Sometimes they are just insecure and selfish and are primarily concerned with how their child's actions reflect back on them.
Some parents are not interested in teaching or guiding or mentoring their children, per se, but in controlling them because doing so is one of the (sometimes the only) way they can get a sense of control over their own lives.
Parents are people just like everyone else, and a lot of them have issues and baggage and really don't do a good job as parents. They are damaged and are wrapped up in their own pain, and their children become part of their fucked up emotional world.
Love the rest of your post, but just wanted to throw this into the mix.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-09-2007 1:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-10-2007 10:42 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 21 of 240 (404850)
06-10-2007 6:18 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by taylor_31
06-10-2007 2:09 AM


quote:
She has talked to my dad, and she says that they are going to make me quit my job, get me away from my gay friend, and make me work for my dad in the oil field. Gawd almighty
Oh yeah, because working around a lot of rugged, sweaty, muscular men will make all of your gayness go away, yes in-deedy!
LOL!
Oh, and BTW, I never, not even once, was confused about the fact that I was attracted to boys. (I'm a woman)
So no, "everybody" doesn't go through a "phase" like that.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by taylor_31, posted 06-10-2007 2:09 AM taylor_31 has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 50 of 240 (405158)
06-11-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
06-11-2007 3:41 AM


Re: It Hurts
quote:
The people who want you to reject your gayness are wrong. The people who want you to reject Christianity are also wrong.
Hmm, it seems that the people who are doing the most effective job at getting Taylor to reject Christianity are the other Christians in his life, including his parents.
Tell me, Phat, since Christianity and Christians seem to be the source of all of Taylor's pain and difficulties right now, why shouldn't he reject it?
It is doing him no good whatsoever, as far as I can tell, and in fact is actively hindering and hurting him.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 06-11-2007 3:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 06-12-2007 1:39 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 79 of 240 (405577)
06-13-2007 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by iano
06-12-2007 8:16 PM


quote:
If you had become sexually aroused by animals in second grade and repressed it and tried to make yourself like girls..etc. Then what? Would you be on this site looking for impartial advice?
So, can you explain to me how homosexuality is just like bestiality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by iano, posted 06-12-2007 8:16 PM iano has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 80 of 240 (405578)
06-13-2007 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Taz
06-12-2007 10:09 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
That avatar picture is of Laurie Anderson, an experimental performance artist and musician.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Taz, posted 06-12-2007 10:09 PM Taz has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 240 (405579)
06-13-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 5:08 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
quote:
I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man.
Are you talking about sex?
Er, plenty of straight couples do many of the same things that gay couples do. Many gay couples don't engage in the buttsex at all, for example, many straight couples do.
And straight couples don't all "do the same thing", either.
I find it interesting that you only mention homosexual men in your bewilderment over the difficulty you imagine they have getting it on.
You do "get" how lesbians might have sex, don't you? That's not quite so difficult to imagine, it it? I'll bet you have "imagined" it many times. (heh, heh, heh)
quote:
I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?
The individual decides their own morality.
quote:
I don't know, I really don't worry.
...says the man with 5 kids.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 5:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 9:24 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 88 of 240 (405658)
06-14-2007 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by riVeRraT
06-13-2007 9:24 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Are you talking about sex?
quote:
no.
Then what you said made no sense.
You said, "I also don't agree with it, based on that it is not the same thing. Man and woman becomes one, seems to be more difficult than man, and man."
First off, did you mean to say that "man and man" is more difficult, or that "man and woman" is more difficult, because currently your sentence says the latter.
If you meant to say that "man and woman" is more difficult, then I misread what you said the first time and you should ignore what I've written below.
If you aren't talking about sex, then it makes no sense to say that it is "more difficult" for man and man to "become one". Men are more similar to other men men in terms of communication styles, health needs, ways they express emotions, etc., and the same it true for women. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" (although I hate those books).
In short, people of the same gender usually have a much easier time understanding one another on many levels and it is more difficult, not less, for a mixed gender couple to learn to understand the other.
The individual decides their own morality.
quote:
I don't think we were talking purely about individual morality, but how the morality of religious fanatics, or anyone else for that matter, affects our society.
Right, but you asked, "I mean what is supposed to be the deciding factor in where our morality lies in this country?"
The government should generally not be legislating morality. Certainly not anything relating to what is being discussed in this thread.
quote:
Plus according to you, there are people who do not decide, or own their own morality, says the woman with no kids.
How does my not having any kids have anything to do with what you just said? OK, it seems you didn't understand, so I'll explain it to you.
The reason I mentioned you having five children is because you said you were not worried about overpopulation and in fact didn't really ever think about it. I mentioned the number of children that you have because it is not surprising to me that someone who has a large number of children probably hasn't thought about the very serious issue of overpopulation. Just keep pumping them out.
Rat, how can you say, "I think it is just a matter of time before some super virus wipes out half of the population. I think with all the medicines we take, we are developing into a race that will soon suffer great disaster, and loss." and then look at your children and not be frightened for them or your decendents?
Someone who says that, and also has lots of children, and says he never thought about the impact of overpopulation on the planet, really doesn't appear to care about the fate of their great grandchildren and beyond.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 06-13-2007 9:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 06-14-2007 10:58 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 89 of 240 (405659)
06-14-2007 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
quote:
Homosexuality is not natural.
Neither is wearing clothes, cutting your hair, shaving your beard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 90 of 240 (405662)
06-14-2007 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Buzsaw
06-13-2007 11:57 PM


Re: Buzsaw Weighing In Here
quote:
10. Some are suggesting that all the female hormones given to cows and other animals which provide our food supply are a factor in the present phenomenon of increased homosexuality.
"Increased" homosexuality? What is the evidence that there is more homosexual people and not just more out homosexual people?
These days, just because not quite as many gay people have to remain closeted in fear of their lives from people like you doesn't mean there are more gay people, it just means that they are more visible.
There's been in increase in the visibility of lesbians as well as gay men. Is this due to the "female hormones" in milk too?
There's also estrogens in soybeans and soy products. Are all the people in China and Japan "gayer" because they eat a lot of soy?
quote:
This lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.
The Christian lifestyle has been unlawful in many cultures and nations throughout history.
Therefore, it must be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 06-13-2007 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 110 of 240 (405787)
06-14-2007 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by riVeRraT
06-14-2007 10:58 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
quote:
I would think men, would have an easier time at understand other men, than woman-man.
To me, it is almost like an unfair advantage.
I had no idea that that marriage success was a competition between couples.
So, are you saying that we shouldn't allow gay people to marry because they would be too successful at marriage and would make the heteros all look bad? That is incredibly petty!
quote:
I have 3 of my own. I had one with an ex, then met my current wife, and we had two more. I love kids, and want to have at least two in my life.
If a couple has more than two children, they are are contributing to the world's overpopulation. In particular, more American children contribute to the depletion of the world's resources many times more than children in most any other place in the world.
If a couple has two children, then they are neither adding to nor reducing overpopulation, as they are simply replacing themselves.
If a couple has one or no children, they are reducing overpopulation.
quote:
The other two, came with my wife, and I love them. One is handicap, and is the best kid in the world. All of them receive there needs in life. It's not like we have an overpopulation problem here in America.
Er, rat? How many unwanted children are waiting for adoption in America?
And besides, we aren't talking about overpopulation in America. Part of the reason the Earth is in such trouble is because we Americans are gobbling up so much of the natural resources, far out of proportion to most of the rest of the world.
More Americans = less for everyone.
quote:
Once I got my children, I cut my nuts, so as not to make too many. I think that is fair.
Three kids is too many from a global population growth standpoint.
To be honest, having lots of kids because you like to have them around doesn't seem like the best reason to have them.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by riVeRraT, posted 06-14-2007 10:58 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by riVeRraT, posted 06-15-2007 8:03 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 159 of 240 (406085)
06-16-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by riVeRraT
06-15-2007 8:03 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
I had no idea that that marriage success was a competition between couples.
quote:
It's not supposed to be,
You seem to think it is, what with your comment about the "unfair advantage" that same sex couples would have if they were allowed to marry.
I said that in response to something you said, rat. YOU are the one bringing competition into the conversation.
quote:
but people like you will be the first to point out the success rate of heterosexual marriages in this forum.
If I do or don't has no relevance to my response to your comment.
If a couple has more than two children, they are are contributing to the world's overpopulation. In particular, more American children contribute to the depletion of the world's resources many times more than children in most any other place in the world.
quote:
Why, because we have most of the food? That is pure BS nator, way to take a thread off-topic....again.
The worlds resources, rat. Food, yes, but also oil, natural gas, water, coal, wood/paper, iron and other metals, various minerals, etc. The average American throws away more stuff in a year than millions of people in the developing world will ever own in their entire lives.
Though accounting for only 5 percent of the world's population, Americans consume 26 percent of the world's energy. (American Almanac)
To be honest, having lots of kids because you like to have them around doesn't seem like the best reason to have them.
quote:
Just back off, you are un-American.
How is it unamerican to want the planet to be able to sustain human (which includes American humans) life far into the future?
Having lots of kids just because you like having them around just doesn't seem like a great reason to have them, is all. It just seems to be more about what your needs and wants are than the kids'. That has nothing to do with being "unamerican" or whatever.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by riVeRraT, posted 06-15-2007 8:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by riVeRraT, posted 06-17-2007 9:47 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 160 of 240 (406086)
06-16-2007 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2007 10:08 AM


Re: Impartial advice
Since it seems that Iano is uninterested in answering the objections to his post, perhaps you might answer my question, since you liked hois reply so much.
Can you explain how homosexuality is just like bestiality?
In particular, can you explain the issue of "consent" as it relates to bestiality and human/human sex?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2007 10:08 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 161 of 240 (406087)
06-16-2007 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by iano
06-15-2007 6:40 PM


Re: Impartial advice
quote:
You're not saying there is anything untoward about bestial attraction are you (you fundi)??
Animals cannot give consent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by iano, posted 06-15-2007 6:40 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by iano, posted 06-16-2007 8:14 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 162 of 240 (406088)
06-16-2007 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2007 2:52 PM


Re: Impartial advice
quote:
Animals don't give consent in the wild either. Ever see bulls and cows mate? Or alley cats? Its not consentual.
That is ridiculous.
I've witnessed horses breed in the pasture. A mare that is not ready will kick the shit out of the stallion if he is too pushy. She allows mating when she is ready, and not before.
In fact, many purebred stallions are too valuable to risk turning out with a bunch of mares, or even one, just in case one of them might injure him, and those who never learn to be patient and polite and court a mare properly really do pretty much become "rapists" in the highly controlled "breeding shed" covers.
Females of most species have a LOT of control over which male they mate with.
All this time on this board and you have never retained the term "sexual selection", juggs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2007 2:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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