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Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 240 (404876)
06-10-2007 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by taylor_31
06-08-2007 3:00 PM


The mysteries of life
taylor_31 writes:
So what do you think I should do? Is it possible that she's right and I am deluding myself? Perhaps I am confused; perhaps I'm relying too heavily on my friend and his influence; and I probably would be making a big mistake to come out and then be wrong about it! Is it possible to learn to like girls? Or am I stupid for even thinking such a dumb thought?
Taylor, allow me to give you my 2 cents worth since I have dealt with similar feelings as you have my entire life.
First, I am a Christian. I have heard many opinions in this controversy, and I have arrived at some rather basic conclusions of my own concerning this topic. I believe that humans cannot help who they are attracted to, or how they feel sexually. That being said, I also believe that there is more to life than physical attraction.
Irregardless of what the Bible says, I don't honestly think that being attracted to another man is any worse than being attracted to a woman.
God made us the way we are, after all. There has to be a reason and a rationale behind Gods overall plan and purpose.
I don't think that men are meant to run off and get married, however...although I shall never judge anyone for doing so. I believe that sexuality is a deeper process than just biological attraction.
First of all, don't let anyone tell you that your feelings are wrong.
Second, don't listen to any Christian who doesnt accept you for who you are.
Third, lets all pray for reconciliation with your Mother. She sounds like a sweet woman who is just confused.
Fourth, don't allow your biological urges to dictate the types of relationships you have. Approach relationships cautiously and keep tight with Jesus as you love others. This applies to both men and women.
Fifth, thanks for sharing! You seem like a level headed young man, and I encourage you to live life as best as you can and without any guilt...as long as you know in your heart that you are trying to do your best!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by taylor_31, posted 06-08-2007 3:00 PM taylor_31 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 06-10-2007 5:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 40 of 240 (405072)
06-11-2007 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taz
06-10-2007 5:39 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Taz writes:
There's a difference between your feelings and his. He has decided to embrace his feelings while you've spent the better part of your life thinking it's a sin to be attracted to another person of the same sex. You've only changed your mind in this matter the last year or so, and even then you still feel it's somehow unnatural. So, please, spare us your christian 2 cents.
You know little about my life, and have probably had half the experience that I have had regarding these matters. How old are you---29? I have learned twice as much as I knew at 29, and despite what my persona appears to you to be at EvC, I am well equipped to give Taylor some honest advice.
Taylor, I don't expect you to take my advice necessarily, but I would like you to consider it. Yes, I have a Christian view about things, and yes that is contrary to what many of these other EvC opinions have to offer.
I will say quite honestly that it is my belief that for any one of us...be we gay or straight, male or female...our personal relationship with Jesus is the most important relationship we will ever have in our lives. The problem with many pro gay Christians is that they celebrate their freedom to be gay and passionate with other men more than they celebrate the most important relationship in their life.
If anyone has any objections to what I say---so be it...but it is my right to say it.
All I am suggesting, Taylor, is that you keep an open mind and heart spiritually as well as humanly.
Don't believe this propaganda that vilifies Christians until you have decided for yourself whether or not it is true.
Edited by Phat, : further insight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 06-10-2007 5:39 PM Taz has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 240 (405074)
06-11-2007 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by taylor_31
06-10-2007 11:24 PM


It Hurts
That is sad what happened at your church. It makes me ashamed of Christians. I just want you to know that it is possible to love Jesus and be in a right relationship with Him and also to be gay. The people who want you to reject your gayness are wrong. The people who want you to reject Christianity are also wrong. My advice is to take each day cool and slow. Simply try and do your best to forgive those people who have hurt you. Perhaps it means staying away from them for awhile, to spare yourself further hurt.
I know what its like to be rejected by an entire church congregation. I also know what its like to have feelings that most of the conservative Christians say are sinful. I know in my heart when I am being selfish and when I am being honest.
I just want to encourage you, Taylor. If you see me in chat, come in and talk with me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by taylor_31, posted 06-10-2007 11:24 PM taylor_31 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by nator, posted 06-11-2007 5:26 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 240 (405266)
06-12-2007 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by nator
06-11-2007 5:26 PM


Re: It Hurts
Nator writes:
Tell me, Phat, since Christianity and Christians seem to be the source of all of Taylor's pain and difficulties right now, why shouldn't he reject it?
He has every right to reject it. My point to him is that the actions and attitudes of hypocritical Christians are not Christs fault.
The Jesus I know and love also loves Taylor---as well as all of you. All I am trying to do is to show Taylor that not all Christians are without understanding and compassion. I commend everyone who cares about Taylor and has given him good advice in this thread. Good advice can come from a Christian as well as a humanist or any other world view of humanity.
It is good to have a wide diversity of views, rather than to stick with just one group....the church included.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by nator, posted 06-11-2007 5:26 PM nator has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 137 of 240 (405894)
06-15-2007 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2007 12:39 PM


Re: Parallels
I like your quote, Nemesis!
One thing I agree with Jar on is that in some cultures, the emphasis is not on a persons sexual orientation so much as it is on that persons ability to be useful in that society.
The Warrior was also a Dancer. In contrast, in todays emasculated society, Dancing (Ballet more so than Hip-Hop)does have a higher perce3ntage of homosexuals who pursue it. Does anyone know if there is a definite link between homosexuality and creativity?
I guess that one issue that certainly needs to be settled among Christians is the whole legislation of morality issue. Do we as Christians have a responsibility to attempt to sanction and propose moral guidelines for society when it is evident that we ourselves are no different and in many cases worse than the population at large?
BTW Taylor...I hope I'm not off topic, here. I just wanna pick some brains!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2007 12:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by molbiogirl, posted 06-15-2007 1:17 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 167 of 240 (406201)
06-17-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by riVeRraT
06-15-2007 3:16 PM


Re: Your pastor is way off in left field.
Rat writes:
I have decided to accept gay marriage IN THE STATE, not religion. I have stated that I do not feel it is right (and that I might be wrong about it) but have chosen to not let my personal opinion affect others.
Phat writes:
I personally would never get married to a guy, but were I counseling someone who wanted to, I wouldnt discourage or encourage them
I do not understand homosexual attractions, and perhaps I never will.
I feel it is a sin, but I am not judging anyone who does it, since I myself am a sinner. I am not happy with my own sin, so why should I be happy with others?
I don't see it (homosexual eroticism) as any more of a sin than lusting after a woman in your heart. Sin is not some grand evil aberration that sends people to Hell. Sin is simply part of human nature. It is our desire to be like Sinatra and do it our way!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by riVeRraT, posted 06-15-2007 3:16 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 6:46 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 170 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 7:43 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 178 of 240 (406259)
06-18-2007 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by nator
06-18-2007 7:43 AM


Is Sin Fair?
Look at it this way. If you had a kid and your kid had a natural inclination to be independent and run off exploring everything, you wouldn't tell the kid to quit having a free will. What you would say to the kid is "stay close to me"....
You may add "You may not understand why its important to listen to me now, but someday you will".
Your kid would still do his/her own thing quite often,because it is human nature. All that sin means is separation from Gods will.
Edited by Phat, : clarification
Edited by Phat, : title

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 7:43 AM nator has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 180 of 240 (406263)
06-18-2007 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by nator
06-18-2007 7:43 AM


Sin is an action against humanity
nator writes:
If God made us to sin as a natural part of ourselves, but then turned around and said ,"Hey, don't sin, even though I made you to sin, because I don't like it.", then that seems quite a bit more than unfair to me.
Lets leave God out of this equation.
Lets assume that Sin=willfully and intentionally not doing our best.
I maintain that humans not only have rights...we have responsibilities.
Let take a hypothetical couple...and they can be of any gender.
If this couple becomes so enamored of each other (call it lust, infatuation, or Eros) that they think only of themselves and their own wants and needs being satisfied, I would not be adverse in labeling their actions as sinful.
I will say, however, that sin is human nature. I am just pointing out that people do not have to be sinful.

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 Message 170 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 7:43 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 12:55 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 06-18-2007 2:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 193 of 240 (406339)
06-19-2007 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Taz
06-19-2007 11:25 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Taz, to Rat writes:
Have you considered the mental harm you are doing to young people everytime you let it slip that somehow god hates it?
Flip this. Have you ever considered that you are doing irreparable mental harm to these same young people by telling them that anything that feels good can and should be experienced?
This is why you may consider that you are a better advocate but in fact are not a true proponent of tough love.
oh wait I forgot...you don't believe that society owes God any respect since He does not exist! I suppose this means that we can do whatever feels good! Nevermind the fact that any time two human beings have sex, the physiological effects last a lifetime. There is no such thing as casual sex. Sex is not as simple and biological as blowing your nose.
Edited by Phat, : added features

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 11:25 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Modulous, posted 06-19-2007 12:10 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 195 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 12:33 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 196 of 240 (406348)
06-19-2007 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Taz
06-19-2007 12:33 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
sorry, but if I ever get a chance to talk to your incarcerated kids, I will do so and you won't have a thing to say about it. They will learn how to deal with your shit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 12:33 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 2:09 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 198 of 240 (406362)
06-19-2007 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Taz
06-19-2007 2:09 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Taz writes:
Let me guess, are you having your manly period?
No...actually I have been rather on edge lately since I have started my counseling. Its almost as if my defenses are down...I also got into an altercation with a brusque foreign guy who demanded that I open a new line at work. I told him that I would decide when and if to do so, and he yelled, "Who do you think you are? I'm the customer!"
He then tried to get me fired for daring to challenge his male ego.
Bottom line: He may have been right, but he was rude about it...and nobody tells me what to do! (This is how on edge I have been since I started counseling a month ago! I have been much more in touch with my inner self, yet unable to as easily control my outer self, except that I no longer gamble)

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