Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9175 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: sirs
Post Volume: Total: 917,651 Year: 4,908/9,624 Month: 256/427 Week: 2/64 Day: 2/8 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Please - Some Impartial Advice Needed
Taz
Member (Idle past 3378 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 181 of 240 (406264)
06-18-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
06-18-2007 12:19 PM


Re: Sin is an action against humanity
Phat writes:
If this couple becomes so enamored of each other (call it lust, infatuation, or Eros) that they think only of themselves and their own wants and needs being satisfied, I would not be adverse in labeling their actions as sinful.
I don't understand something. If these two individuals lust for each other so bad and have consentual sex with each other, what the hell does that got to do with the rest of us?

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes![/size]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 06-18-2007 12:19 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 499 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 182 of 240 (406268)
06-18-2007 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
06-18-2007 12:19 PM


Re: Sin is an action against humanity
Phat writes:
Lets assume that Sin=willfully and intentionally not doing our best.
No, let's not.
Let's say instead that sin is just not doing our best - leave out the "willfully and intentionally". Let's say that sin is based on our actions, not our intentions.
Sin is not "an action against humanity" - it's an action against ourselves. It's not being all that we can be. It's not doing what we could do.
Now, remind us: What does "not doing our best" have to do with being gay or straight? Why can't "doing our best" mean being the gayest we can be?
How can we "do our best" by not being who we are?
Edited by Ringo, : Shpelling.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 06-18-2007 12:19 PM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2257 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 183 of 240 (406273)
06-18-2007 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by riVeRraT
06-18-2007 11:27 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
The statements that you have made in this thread:
quote:
I don't care if people have gay sex,
and
quote:
I am not in favor of the act of gay sex.
Do not mean the same thing.
If I said, "I don't care if mentally-ill people own guns", and then I also said "I am not in favor of mentally ill people owning guns", would you think I was expressing the same opinion in the two statements? No, of course you wouldn't, becasue they are very different opinions.
You say "you don't care" but you keep letting things like "I am not in favor of" slip.
quote:
I have expressed that in other words, give it up already.
You have expressed both opinions, and they are contradictory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 11:27 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2257 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 184 of 240 (406276)
06-18-2007 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by riVeRraT
06-18-2007 11:37 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
But if you didn't want to bring up competition, then why did you talk about the "unfair advantage" that gay couples would have?
quote:
Because it is, because it is not the same thing.
Right. Becasue of the competitiveness you feel, apparently.
Why can't you simply admit that one of the reasons you feel uncomfortable with gay marriage is because they might show up the straights? I mean, clearly that's exactly a fear you have, otherwise you wouldn't have said it.
quote:
It's not a fear, it's a fact.
Like I said, it is what it is, stop trying to tie emotions to a purely logical statement.
But I have no idea why you would bring such a thing up unless you were concerend about the gays making the straights look bad in the marriage success department.
You are the one who brought up the term "unfair advantage", remember.
You are the one objecting to "unfairness", it seems.
Again, are you talking about sex as the "obvious" difference?
quote:
Again....no.
Shit you are stubborn.
Then what is this "obvious" difference you keep mentioning but never come out and identify?
Otherwise, there is no appreciable difference in marriages between straights and gays, other than, as you say, the possibility of a slightly easier time for same-sex couples.
quote:
So now it's you that has the fear?
Huh? How on earth did you get anything like that from my words?
[i]There is no difference in gay marriage and hetro marriage, except for how people have sex and the fact that gays might have an easier time of it.
I'm delighted that anyone might have an easier time in their marriages, for any reason.
We don't need to give it away if we just use less of it in the first place.
quote:
Other than oil, that is bullshit.
That statement makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense, rat.
Many of the worlds resources are non-renewable, or are being depleted at a rate far faster than they can be replenished.
Americans consume natural resources at a rate far greater than much of the rest of the world. That means we use more than our fair share, simply because we are rich and strong.
More Americans = less for everyone eventually.
When was the last time you bought a pair of sneakers that were made in the US of materials produced entirely in the US?
quote:
I call that feeding the world. Thanks to US people around the globe have lobs and can feed their families.
In sweatshops. With no benefits. No unions. No democracy. No worker safety laws. No power to make anything better for themselves. For pennies a day in many cases. All so Nike can make incredible profits on a pair of Air Jordans.
What, do you think the workers in China have rights like workers here in the US?
No, not really. I am saying that it sounds selfish to have kids because of your own needs and wants.
quote:
I say it sounds even more selfish to not wants kids, and have everything for yourself. Do you think before you talk?
If I had a kid, it wouldn't be becasue I like to have a kid around. I would have a kid in order to produce a thinking, sensitive, caring, educated, intelligent, productive, joyful member of the human race. Frankly, my desire to have a kid around would be a much less important factor in my decision to have one. You see, the kid doesn't exist for my benefit. It is the other way around.
My overpopulation "worries" are backed up by copious amounts of evidence. You have offered no evidence in support of your reassurances that "everything is fine".
quote:
I've indicated that everything is fine here, in the US.
It doesn't matter about the US unless you only care about right here and right now. That is, as I've said, a self-centered and short-sighted view to take.
I thought that you Christians were supposed to care about what happens to everybody, and give people your coat if they are cold and don't have a coat, and all that.
Your attitude seems to be "Hey, I got mine, everything's hunky-dory here, right now, with my immediate family, and I don't really care what happens a couple hundred years down the road."
Plus if you have the resources to provide for your children, what is the problem with having them?
It contributes to the more rapid depletion of non-renewable resources.
This will affect your decendents.
quote:
If I did not have those resources, then I would not have had them.
Let me ask you this. If all of them got accepted into Harvard, would you be able to send them?
You have already said that you never even thought about overpopulation,
quote:
Of course I did, that is why I had a vasectomy after I had a few.
That's not "overpopulation", rat, in the global sense. That was your own bank account.
Opinions based upon data always supercede those that are pulled out of backsides.
quote:
pfffft, maybe you should really start living that way, if thats what you are going to preach.
One of the reasons we have chosen to not have any natural children is because of the overpopulation problem. I also do not shop in WAL-MART, which gets the majority of it's products from companies that use questionable overseas labor practices and is a predatory business anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 11:37 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 8:09 PM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 503 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 185 of 240 (406283)
06-18-2007 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Taz
06-18-2007 12:03 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
So again, are you still going to stigmatize or openly disapprove if one of them is gay or are you going to accept him for who he is?
I'll say it again, I have never stigmatized anyone.
I'll say this again, I do not hate gay people, or disapprove of gay people.
I do not think homosexual sex is correct, and I do not understand it, perhaps I never will. I am open about it, with my friends and family, and would be with my son.
I am sure there are things that I do that my son would not approve of, that's just life.
Doesn't mean I would love him any less, or stigmatize him.
Schraf already made the point. You are beyond neutral. You disapprove,
Of what?
Jesus, you and nator are thick headed, perhaps worse than a fundie.
Before this point, you were against gay marriage in the state even though it had absolutely nothing to do with your marriage.
I was never "against" gay marriage.
I just never consider two humans of the same sex able to be married. It's like calling black-white, it just ain't. In order for it to be a marriage, it has to be man and woman. I still feel that way in the church, just not in the state.
The sad part is people like you always associate it with hate, and this or that. when it is none of the above. The world is round, not square, and no matter how hard you try, it won't be square.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 12:03 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 190 by nator, posted 06-19-2007 9:21 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 503 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 186 of 240 (406284)
06-18-2007 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by nator
06-18-2007 4:24 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Huh? How on earth did you get anything like that from my words?
There is no difference in gay marriage and hetro marriage, except for how people have sex and the fact that gays might have an easier time of it.
I'm delighted that anyone might have an easier time in their marriages, for any reason.
I am done responding to you, if you haven't got it by now, then you never will.
But one question, why is it when you point out the differences between gay marriage and straight marriage, it is so different then when I do.
Are you even reading your own words?
In sweatshops. With no benefits. No unions. No democracy. No worker safety laws. No power to make anything better for themselves. For pennies a day in many cases. All so Nike can make incredible profits on a pair of Air Jordan's.
What, do you think the workers in China have rights like workers here in the US?
Way to drift off-topic. start another thread about it.
Your attitude seems to be "Hey, I got mine, every thing's hunky-dory here, right now, with my immediate family, and I don't really care what happens a couple hundred years down the road."
duh.
XXXXXXX
One of the reasons we have chosen to not have any natural children is because of the overpopulation problem. I also do not shop in WAL-MART, which gets the majority of it's products from companies that use questionable overseas labor practices and is a predatory business anyway.
Your not helping anyone with that attitude, go ahead, start a thread.
Stop wasting poor Taylor's time here.
You are the queen of dragging things off-topic, and no-one seems to do anything about it, just sad.
Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by nator, posted 06-18-2007 4:24 PM nator has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3378 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 187 of 240 (406296)
06-18-2007 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by riVeRraT
06-18-2007 8:01 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
riverrat writes:
The sad part is people like you always associate it with hate, and this or that.
See, this is why people like me think we have a higher/better sense of morality than religion will ever offer. You don't see it as hate, but we do. I have never heard of a single racist that actually admits his racist views as hate. Why? Because the one doing the hating can't tell that they are hating. It's like having bad breath or body odor. Sometimes you need someone else to remind you that your breath stinks or your body wreaks. Same thing with hate.
This reminds me of a program I once saw about the KKK, a well known white supremacy group. There was one particular interview that I remembered. This was a typical white male with a beard. In the interview, he insisted that his organization does not hate anyone. They are only doing god's will by seperating the races.
Let me emphasize that I am not comparing you to racists. I am only pointing out that you are in the same line of thought. Your case is certainly not as intense or noticable as an outspoken wizard. But in the end, you both claim to not hate while the rest of us DO see what you are doing as hating.
I just never consider two humans of the same sex able to be married.
Permit me to reiterrate this. I just never consider two humans of different races able to be married. Even to this day, many interracial couples are stigmatized and harrassed everyday because of this same line of reasoning.
Now, don't get me wrong. You are certainly entitled to have your opinion. I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me. In my particular case, I accept. In your particular case, you could just not accept. It's that extra step you take to speak out against people's personal choices that gets me riled up.
If you remember, I once briefly shared with you my personal view on drugs and drug users (past and present). It disgusts me that people could bring themselves to do drugs and then later in life make babies. To me, this is the ultimate "do what I say, not as I do" hypocrisy. By all practical purposes, you could certainly label this part of me as hate. Can you recall anytime I have ever spoken out against past drug users, especially the ones that decided to have kids except for the two times I mentioned this as examples of "if you have a personal bias of something, please don't share it with the world"?
But if you must know, the main reason why I am picking on you is because it frightens me to know you still hold your view (which I would label as hate) and also be so outspoken about it especially in your church. Young people have a natural tendency to hate those that are different than them. For now, I see you as nothing more than a fuel source for this hate that exists in the next generation.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes![/size]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 8:01 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 8:41 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 189 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 8:43 AM Taz has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 503 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 188 of 240 (406320)
06-19-2007 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taz
06-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Let me emphasize that I am not comparing you to racists. I am only pointing out that you are in the same line of thought. Your case is certainly not as intense or noticable as an outspoken wizard. But in the end, you both claim to not hate while the rest of us DO see what you are doing as hating.
That's all BS.
My not liking homosexual sex, or not understanding the attraction between same sex couples, it is only comparable to me not liking Ford over Chevy.
My dislike, and ignorance has nothing to do with the person. I have never been, or will never be prejudice, or a racist. And my line of thought is not comparable to it, so back off.
Even to this day, many interracial couples are stigmatized and harrassed everyday because of this same line of reasoning.
I know, I am one of them .
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
Why are we going through this again, I support gay marriage.
It's that extra step you take to speak out against people's personal choices that gets me riled up.
Listen, forever marriage has been between a man and a woman. Homosexuals want to rewrite how it's always been, and try to do something that is "out of the norm", of course there is going to be some confusion.
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
That is great that we can live like that today. But let's look at the evolution of it. Let's go back to say caveman times, where being part of a community was a necessity. How do you think these cavemen would have handled gay sex?
Do you really think that they would just grunted and said, well it has nothing to do with me?
Or would the strongest probably would have killed them off?
Now our intellect determines survival of the fittest, and we will evolve from that. So the question I asked molibol was,..what is next?
Are we going to start marrying gorillas as soon as they can consent?
But if you must know, the main reason why I am picking on you is because it frightens me to know you still hold your view (which I would label as hate) and also be so outspoken about it especially in your church.
I am outspoken in my church, because I defend gay peoples rights.
However, if you think that most biblical churches are going to start marrying gay people, then we might as well forget about religion all together.
People who believe in Jesus, have only the bible to follow His teachings, and Jesus was obviously against it. He was against all sexual morality.
But Jesus, and God, also love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I guess for now, that is my approach. I hate their sin, just like I hate my own.
Does that make me a racist, or a gay basher, or a hater of people?
I think I have made great gains in being an outspoken person in favor of gay marriage. I have even taken a chance at being not accepted in my church because of it. I have risked everything God has accomplished in me there. I have decided to put aside my own natural instinct, and made an intellectual choice about it.
Don't you see the difference between me not liking the act, over accepting the person?
No matter what we do, there are going to be people who will not accept it, or even interracial marriage. You would say it is because it is what we teach our kids, that causes that hate.
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? The hate or the teaching of hate? I say it is not only upbringing, but just natural instinct that fuels this "hate". Maybe it is just evolution at it's finest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by tudwell, posted 06-19-2007 11:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 503 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 189 of 240 (406321)
06-19-2007 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Taz
06-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Let me emphasize that I am not comparing you to racists. I am only pointing out that you are in the same line of thought. Your case is certainly not as intense or noticable as an outspoken wizard. But in the end, you both claim to not hate while the rest of us DO see what you are doing as hating.
That's all BS.
My not liking homosexual sex, or not understanding the attraction between same sex couples, it is only comparable to me not liking Ford over Chevy.
My dislike, and ignorance has nothing to do with the person. I have never been, or will never be prejudice, or a racist. And my line of thought is not comparable to it, so back off.
Even to this day, many interracial couples are stigmatized and harrassed everyday because of this same line of reasoning.
I know, I am one of them .
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
Why are we going through this again, I support gay marriage.
It's that extra step you take to speak out against people's personal choices that gets me riled up.
Listen, forever marriage has been between a man and a woman. Homosexuals want to rewrite how it's always been, and try to do something that is "out of the norm", of course there is going to be some confusion.
I am not saying that they ought to get married. What I am saying is that what other people decide to do with their lives have nothing to do with me.
That is great that we can live like that today. But let's look at the evolution of it. Let's go back to say caveman times, where being part of a community was a necessity. How do you think these cavemen would have handled gay sex?
Do you really think that they would just grunted and said, well it has nothing to do with me?
Or would the strongest probably would have killed them off?
Now our intellect determines survival of the fittest, and we will evolve from that. So the question I asked molibol was,..what is next?
Are we going to start marrying gorillas as soon as they can consent?
But if you must know, the main reason why I am picking on you is because it frightens me to know you still hold your view (which I would label as hate) and also be so outspoken about it especially in your church.
I am outspoken in my church, because I defend gay peoples rights.
However, if you think that most biblical churches are going to start marrying gay people, then we might as well forget about religion all together.
People who believe in Jesus, have only the bible to follow His teachings, and Jesus was obviously against it. He was against all sexual morality.
But Jesus, and God, also love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I guess for now, that is my approach. I hate their sin, just like I hate my own.
Does that make me a racist, or a gay basher, or a hater of people?
I think I have made great gains in being an outspoken person in favor of gay marriage. I have even taken a chance at being not accepted in my church because of it. I have risked everything God has accomplished in me there. I have decided to put aside my own natural instinct, and made an intellectual choice about it.
Don't you see the difference between me not liking the act, over accepting the person?
No matter what we do, there are going to be people who will not accept it, or even interracial marriage. You would say it is because it is what we teach our kids, that causes that hate.
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? The hate or the teaching of hate? I say it is not only upbringing, but just natural instinct that fuels this "hate". Maybe it is just evolution at it's finest.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Taz, posted 06-18-2007 9:37 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 11:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2257 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 190 of 240 (406323)
06-19-2007 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by riVeRraT
06-18-2007 8:01 PM


Re: The mysteries of life
Do you have any daughters, rat?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by riVeRraT, posted 06-18-2007 8:01 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 4:48 PM nator has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3378 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 191 of 240 (406334)
06-19-2007 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by riVeRraT
06-19-2007 8:43 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
riverrat writes:
So the question I asked molibol was,..what is next?
Are we going to start marrying gorillas as soon as they can consent?
See what I mean? Oh wait, you don't see what I mean the same way that you don't know your breath stinks.
I am outspoken in my church, because I defend gay peoples rights.
See, the thing is I don't believe that you are actually defending gay rights. Perhaps you think you do. Perhaps you have good intentions. But someone with a personal bias about something will always find a way to speak against it whether on a conscious or subconscious level. Perhaps you're not even aware of it, but you're going to let a few phrases slip out here and there.
Why do I not speak out for or against drugs and drug users at all? When I really need to, I will say that I am for rehabilitation, legalization of certain drugs that don't do harm to the user, etc. But I really don't believe that, so I don't actually open my mouth about it every chance I get. Why? Because anything I say will always have a chance of letting the listener hear my personal bias against it.
But then today we live in an age when everyone has an opinion on everything about everything. Can't blame you for having an opinion...
Listen, forever marriage has been between a man and a woman.
Yeah, and forever slavery was legal and encourage. What's your point?
However, if you think that most biblical churches are going to start marrying gay people, then we might as well forget about religion all together.
People who believe in Jesus, have only the bible to follow His teachings, and Jesus was obviously against it. He was against all sexual morality.
But Jesus, and God, also love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I guess for now, that is my approach. I hate their sin, just like I hate my own.
Does that make me a racist, or a gay basher, or a hater of people?
Well, again I'm sure you have every good intention and all. You think it's a sin, therefore everytime you speak in your church for gay rights, you're going to occasionally let it slip out that you think god hates it. Like I said before, young people, especially high schoolers, think it's the cool thing to hate people who are different. You're going to reinforce this immature hate with your preaching.
Don't you see the difference between me not liking the act, over accepting the person?
Of course I do. What I'm saying is that your not liking the act will definitely leak over the accepting the person side. Perhaps not intentionally.
Look, I think it's great that you've decided to follow your intellectual side rather than your instincts. I commend you for it. Not many religious people want to take that extra step. What I'm trying to do, and apparently failing to do, is to get you to take another extra step in seeing your own personal bias.
A commedian I once saw said "If you have shit, don't give it to me. Keep your own shit." You can continue to do what you are doing. I just want you to realize what your personal bias is, because up to now you are still seeing your reaction to homosexuality as an ordianry, no-harm's-done, everyday reaction. Have you considered the mental harm you are doing to young people everytime you let it slip that somehow god hates it?
But what came first, the chicken or the egg? The hate or the teaching of hate? I say it is not only upbringing, but just natural instinct that fuels this "hate". Maybe it is just evolution at it's finest.
So, because you wholeheartedly accept evolution now, you're going to continue the pattern of teaching your kids against something that has nothing to do with you?
Anyway, I'm done talking about this. You can continue whatever you are doing. I guess sometimes you just can't convince the person that his breath stinks if he insists that the smell is pleasant.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes![/size]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 8:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 06-19-2007 11:43 AM Taz has replied
 Message 200 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 5:00 PM Taz has not replied

  
tudwell
Member (Idle past 6065 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 192 of 240 (406338)
06-19-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by riVeRraT
06-19-2007 8:41 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
riVeRraT writes:
How do you think these cavemen would have handled gay sex?
Do you really think that they would just grunted and said, well it has nothing to do with me?
Or would the strongest probably would have killed them off?
Actually, cavemen had big fat orgies seasonally where I'm sure some men did bone one another, if, say, all the females were taken, or something. I'm no expert on the matter, but it seems something as chaotic and primal as an orgy would be as easy a place as any for gay sex to pop up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 8:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by riVeRraT, posted 06-19-2007 5:10 PM tudwell has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 193 of 240 (406339)
06-19-2007 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Taz
06-19-2007 11:25 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Taz, to Rat writes:
Have you considered the mental harm you are doing to young people everytime you let it slip that somehow god hates it?
Flip this. Have you ever considered that you are doing irreparable mental harm to these same young people by telling them that anything that feels good can and should be experienced?
This is why you may consider that you are a better advocate but in fact are not a true proponent of tough love.
oh wait I forgot...you don't believe that society owes God any respect since He does not exist! I suppose this means that we can do whatever feels good! Nevermind the fact that any time two human beings have sex, the physiological effects last a lifetime. There is no such thing as casual sex. Sex is not as simple and biological as blowing your nose.
Edited by Phat, : added features

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 11:25 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Modulous, posted 06-19-2007 12:10 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 195 by Taz, posted 06-19-2007 12:33 PM Phat has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 194 of 240 (406344)
06-19-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
06-19-2007 11:43 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Have you ever considered that you are doing irreparable mental harm to these same young people by telling them that anything that feels good can and should be experienced?
I've certainly considered that. I decided against teaching that lesson, since it would include being for taking heroin, continuing to take heroin and never stopping. It would be encouraging unprotected promiscuity, an obvious health hazard.
Actually - one of the lessons I think it is imperative we get across to young people is that one should balance any negative health consequences against the pleasure of the experience before coming to an informed decision about how to handle the situation.
Another lesson is in the golden rule and practical morality decisions. The bottom line being that if you want to engage in an activity (after making the informed decision to do so), you should then consider others who will be affected by the action. If all parties involved consent to the action after making their own informed consent, then go for it.
Nobody is saying - if it feels good - do it. Teaching kids hedonism as a lifestyle is irresponsible from our cultural perspective. If they choose to be hedonists after making an informed decision - then that is fine as long as they do not harm others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 06-19-2007 11:43 AM Phat has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3378 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 195 of 240 (406347)
06-19-2007 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
06-19-2007 11:43 AM


Re: The mysteries of life
Phat writes:
Flip this. Have you ever considered that you are doing irreparable mental harm to these same young people by telling them that anything that feels good can and should be experienced?
Haha, Phat. You have just one problem. I don't tell them anything. I don't pretend to be some wise man chosen by god to deliver them a message. I only talk when I see people share their hate with the world. Other than that, I neither discourage nor encourage anything. I am a charter member of the Keep Your Mouth Shut, Enoch Club.
This is why you may consider that you are a better advocate but in fact are not a true proponent of tough love.
I am not an advocate of anything you are referring to. I am only an advocate of "Don't share your shit with the world. Keep your own shit."
oh wait I forgot...you don't believe that society owes God any respect since He does not exist! I suppose this means that we can do whatever feels good! Nevermind the fact that any time two human beings have sex, the physiological effects last a lifetime. There is no such thing as casual sex. Sex is not as simple and biological as blowing your nose.
Just curious. Are you a proponent of sodomy laws and such? Looks to me like nothing would make you more happy than legislating people's personal lives.
By the way, the underlined portion I call bullshit. There are plenty of people in this world that would disagree with this statement. There are also many people that would agree. This is why we can't legislate people's personal lives, Phat.
Again, if you have shit, don't give it to me or anyone else. Keep your own shit.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes![/size]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 06-19-2007 11:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 06-19-2007 12:39 PM Taz has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024