Political Correlation?

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It is my skepticism about idealistic ideologies, and my empirical observations that historically they haven't worked, that leads me to be conservative.

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Conservative ideology is Utopian and idealistic, son in that regard you are failing mightily. Indeed, Conservatism is largely based on theistic assumptions that have simply been disqaulified by the modern experience, but this has no impact, of course, on an Idealistic belief.

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Politics and diplomacy is worse. The US may be run by people who think like MBAs, and this bothers many academics. But many other countries are run by people who think like the bullies who beat up the academics in junior high gym class. It takes equally tough, but principled, people to face these types down.

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Thats bizarre; the US is run exactly that way. No equal trade, only manipulative trade. No respect for community, no recognition of peers, and an us-vs-the-world mentality based purely on domestic propaganda. The run-up to the occupation of Iraq was exactly bullying, and there was very little evidence of any on the American side standing up to their bullies. They were the bullies.

I argue for neither one. Now what?

Yes, The Incredible Bulk, I remember those vaguely, my grandfather used to go to flea markets with loads of comics.I have a small stash of like 500 comics collected, mostly from him.I hate outgrowing superheroes, I still have so many Marvel action figures. Now they are just ornaments on a shelf... A pity lol.But my favorite hero of all time is the Silver Surfer, his Christ-like qualities, amazing storyline, and great art, make him the best comic there ever was!Subscriptions today though are a waste of money, horrid art, bad plots, crappy covers, everything is bad. One comic still worth buying though is the Fantastic Four. The Silver Surfer was ended, now there are new ones floating around, just reissues with bad art...I never liked DC but both DC and Marvel are going downhill, and fast.
One comic I enjoyed from DC was "The Demon" but he never made it big, I love the Jack Kirby style art.This message has been edited by prophex, 09-02-2004 10:45 AM

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"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."Ephesians 5:14

OK, there's at least one comics topic elsewhere. Go there.Adminnemooseus

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This thread is leaning towards the other thread of the differences between Conservatives and Liberals, but I will let the Admin sort this out. Actually, conservatism is a proven* ideology. Liberalism is the more utopian and idealistic philosophy.My definition of conservatism is: Enable people to become the best they can be. It is more of a reasoning-based approach.My definition of liberalism is: Solve the immediate problem for the other person. It is more of an emotional-based approach.The difference tends to be agreeing on what the consequences of the action lead to. Depending on the issue, one or other of the philosophies doesn't seem to grasp the complexity of long term consequences. IMO, Liberals are more likely to view things too simplistically, and not to understand the long term effects. I will use the minimum wage as an example. The consequences are more illegal immigration and fewer entry-level jobs (more short-term specialized contracting, too).Yes, my view of conservatism is akin to the saying in the Bible about teaching a man to fish is better than giving him a fish to satisfy the immediate short term problem (which I view as a liberal's approach).The good thing about America is that we have a system that achieves an ever-adapting balance between the two philosophies. The guy gets the fish AND learns how to fish for future meals.- - - -
* By "proven", I mean that society has evolved over many milleniums, including religion. I view the major religions as successful outcomes of an evolutionary process that perhaps started with cavemen attributing natural disasters (and fortunate events based on wishes) to a supernatural cause. Out of the evolution of religion (survival of proven and convincing practices), we have much wisdom recorded over history (written in the Bible) and practiced for a long time.

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My definition of conservatism is....

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My definition of liberalism is....

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Yeah, making up your own definitions is good.There is nothing wrong with making your own definitions, of course, if that really is the way you see the world and the way you organize your facts. However, then in making your point you may not be arguing against anything that the other person is saying -- if you are not careful how your definitions are different then you run the risk of inadvertently falling into the straw man fallacy.

okaay, where?(ps - the panther was good too)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I guess your just "stuck in the middle again" (as the song goes ...)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

So this is like the "conservative democrat" from georgia talking to the RNC convention because he feels the democrates have abandoned him ...anybody knows that a southern democrat is more conservative than a massachusetts republican, so that's no surprise to me.be careful of daffynitions ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I'm going to have to insist that you substantiate this assertion in some detail. Please cite examples of what you consider manipulative trade. What community and peers are you referring to here ? Again, you need to elaborate.

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I'm going to have to insist that you substantiate this assertion in some detail.

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According to Smith and his predecessors, private property is a naturally occurring, right way to organise society because god gave the world to man. Becuase man therefore possesses the earth, and the earth exists for the service of man, it can and must be divided, apportioned, and owned. This is of course in contradiction to most autocthonous conceptions of property rights. There is no rational basis to private property law.

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Please cite examples of what you consider manipulative trade.

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For example, offering trade with strings, such as the purchase of weapon systems. Or applying embargoes and pressure against devloping countries to remove protections on manufactured goods while the US subsidises agricultural produciton. Or applying pressure to OPEC states to increase oil production and lower prices, despite the fact that the market should be left to determine these itself according to the US's own doctrine. Or pushing the world to accept GM crops that turn primary farming into corporate-owned partwork.

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What community and peers are you referring to here ?

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The community of nations, such as it is. The US treats all other states as enemies at worst, and fools at best. It is contemptuous of international law, spies on the UN, blackmails UN delegates with trade treaties, employs unilateral force, sabotages institutions like Kyoto not on the basis of the best interests of its citizens but on the basis of the narrow interests of its richbastards, violates nuclear non-proliferation treaties, carries out an annual foreign military intervention, supports terorism in Israel, etc etc.America is in every sense a rogue state that presents a clear and present danger to everyone else on the planet. It is a state that exists primarily as a bully, and never enagges in equitable trade if it can at all be avoided.

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Again, you need to elaborate.

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There is no war on terrorism. There are fewer instances of terrorism today than there were in the 80's, and yet more (uncritical) coverage. And when the US's delusions of grandeur and manifest destiny are opposed, as they were over Iraq, the US instantly plays the race card and masquerades as the victim of "anti-americanism". It's great for building a mob of hysterical patriots who never question the state, but it is delusional and bordering on Fascism.Posing for the camera the United Nations man came
He talked of control and the terrible drought
And the way that the west would bail them out
Then he stopped smiling and talked conditions
Of mutual aid, and American wishes
Sending in aid with sewn-on strings
If they won't buy arms then it's pulled back in
Feeding the world American style
Colonel Sanders has an empire behind his smile
Back up the investments with a military regime
Then cleverly says it's to keep the world free
But the multinational myths are beginning to fall
The poor don't want aid, they want CONTROL
And if we really want to see the third world eat
We've got to see through the wrapping on the high street
Past the barriers of culture that dictate our lives
We're busy consuming as the other half dies
And the answer's not a question of charity
Not whilst profit's still the top priority
So let the glossy shop-fronts know what to expect
And you bosses of Companies...

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Actually, conservatism is a proven* ideology. Liberalism is the more utopian and idealistic philosophy

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Nonsesne; Conservatism is Eden-ite philosphy in which the past is perfect, and the present corrupt. It is wholly discredited in an industrial society highly prone to change - as your own name and tag acknowledge. Conservatism has a Utopain view of the past and its political decisions made on the basis are necessarily groundless.

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Yes, my view of conservatism is akin to the saying in the Bible about teaching a man to fish is better than giving him a fish to satisfy the immediate short term problem (which I view as a liberal's approach).

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No the conservative approach is to lend the man a fishing rod, and then take all the fish he catches except the minimum he needs to live on. Although that is not important to Conservatives; what is important is the "justice" in the man not becoming on charity, that is, the moral hazard.The "liberal" approach ignores such idealisms as the moral hazard, and tries to solve the problem on the basis that we all benefit from another human to help us solve our problems. That solution is to make him as good a fisher as possible.

Your definition of Conservatism is not what Conservatives agree upon

We already knew you can quote leftist poetry, and generate additional unsupported assertions from your previous unsupported assertions.I was hoping for a coherent defense of one of your assertions with actual evidence. Perhaps this is a forlorn hope.

This isn't really a moderated thread. So you are all really on your own. However:It isn't clear how firmly you have supported your assertions Contra. A simple reading of your post suggests that these are simply more assertions of your own.