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Author Topic:   Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 327 (365241)
11-21-2006 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by purpledawn
11-19-2006 1:38 PM


Great thread, very eloquent
Allopathy (MD): A method of treating disease with remedies that produce effects antagonistic to those caused by the disease itself.
Naturopathy (ND): A system of therapeutics in which surgery and prescription medications are avoided, and preparations such as vitamins, nutritional supplements, and herbs are used to treat and prevent disease.
Naturopathic Doctors
Naturopathic doctors -- who carry an N.D. behind their name -- focus on the whole health of patients and emphasize the use of diet, exercise, nutritional supplements and herbal therapies to help prevent disease and to promote wellness. They attend accredited, four-year graduate level naturopathic medical schools to become primary-care practitioners, but have a more limited scope of practice than do medical doctors. They receive the same basic sciences as an M.D., but also study clinical nutrition, acupuncture, homeopathic and botanical medicine and psychology. They do not go through residency programs, but must pass rigorous national and state boards to practice.
Homeopathy: A system for treating disease based on the administration of minute doses of a drug that in massive amounts produces symptoms in healthy persons similar to those of the disease.
Its very interesting that you bring up naturopathy as legitimate medicine and offer their benefits, because my wife and I are currently seeking one for my daughter. My daughter has some sort of attention deficit. We aren't sure if its attributed to ADHD currently, because we have recieved conflicting diagnoses. We feel that the ADHD phenomenon is something of the latest rage and likely is due to television as the main culprit. Doctors are often times too quick to slap on a faulty diagnosis at the first sign of inattentiveness, when they may misinterpret the child's behavior.
The remedy has been to administer drugs which I scarcely see as an actual remedy. If anything, its like offering a band-aid to an amputee. I think drugs is a last resort. Drugging kids and dulling their wits is the last thing they need, literally. If another avenue, such as redirection techniques can be employed, they should before anyone tries medicine. I have seen the affects of ritalin and other drugs similar to it. I don't think there is a long-term consensus made about them. That's where naturopathy comes in.
Naturopathic physicians are viewed by some as kind of pseudo-scientific. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, most naturopathic physicians are highly trained in both Eastern and Western medicine. Naturopaths, if anything, are often more qualified because they go through additional, specialized training. Its been my experience that they test more thoroughly than your average MD or psychotherapist, to really find the root of the cause. Aside from which, MD's are often supported by the pharmaceutical industry share a reciprocal relationship and are basically instructed to 'push' certain drugs. I don't like that because it has a special interest attached to it, rather than what's in the best interest of the patient. Of course, having said that, this isn't a sweeping indictment to all physicians. But I have personally seen this kind of bias in action and it is not in the best interests of many patients.
Now to discuss childhood vaccinations
Vaccination is the process of administering weakened or dead pathogens to a healthy person or animal, with the intent of conferring immunity against a targeted form of a related disease agent. It succeeded and is distinct from inoculation.
Somebody has already shared that it is incontrovertible that vaccines work. For the most part, I do agree. There is no telling how Polio could have succeeded had not Pasteur came along. I do believe vaccines, by and large, work. However, I think there is an overstatement on their true effectiveness. In order to legitimize this belief, we have to look at other countries that do not focus highly on western medicine and see how the results weigh out.
We have to be mindful, I think, that the pharmaceutical industry needs sick people for their buisness to survive. And I think they offer some solutions, but at the same time, I think they may be too idealized at times. This is not some conspiratorial rant against the pharmaceutical industry. I don't think their representatives are twisting their moustaches, hatching some diabolic scheme to keep people sick. I just think its a false sense of hope in many instances.
We have been lead to believe that vaccinating our children is necessary to protect them and to stop the spread of various diseases.
I believe that geriatric and pediatric vaccinations are the most important. Some of them, I believe, are unnessesary. For instance, the Hep C vaccine is about worthless. Hep A and Hep B vaccines have some legitimacy.
And while I think this website might be a bit over the top, they make a good point.
Its kind of like the Flu vaccine. Its completely unnecessary for the majority of the general public. The reason why, is that influenza has a propensity for mutation. Hell, that's practically its job. And by the time you get vaccinated, there is already a new strain seeking a host. And the old vaccine is already antiquated. A normal persons white blood cell count and their overall antibodies can fight the Flu. But, some people do need it. But if anyone thinks that getting a Flu vaccine is going to save them, that is not necessarily the case.
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add and correct typos

Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by purpledawn, posted 11-19-2006 1:38 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by nwr, posted 11-21-2006 8:22 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 68 by nator, posted 11-21-2006 8:37 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 69 by nator, posted 11-21-2006 8:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 70 by anglagard, posted 11-21-2006 9:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 74 by purpledawn, posted 11-22-2006 7:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 327 (365256)
11-21-2006 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by nwr
11-21-2006 8:22 PM


Re: Great thread, very eloquent
That link shows graphs, purportedly from Australia. What is it about Australia that you think fits with "do not focus highly on western medicine?"
Yeah, I had a graph with Chinese statistics and now I can't find it.
Moreover, that web page is clearly designed to push an agenda (and anti-vaccine agenda). It does not mention the effects of antibiotics, which became available at the time deaths were decreasing. The antibiotics are likely the major factor in the decline of scarlet fever. As I recall, there was a brief increase in typhoid during the 50s, due to contaminated copra, but I can't see any sign of that in the graph. Mixing typhoid and scarlet fever with polio and diphtheria on the same graph would only be done if it is intended to mislead. And that web page is from the same web site as another page that you admit "might be a bit over the top."
I certainly would grant that the information needs to be corroborated, however, I think they offer the flipside of a coin. It does have an anti-vaccine agenda, and the sheer fact that vaccines are already deomstrably proven to be effective is enough to silence some of their arguments. However, the focus of my post was directed at alternatives. Aside from which, the pharmaceutical companies could be as construed as biased as well. I mean, they have a buisness to run too.
As well, it doesn't take long looking at the huge disclaimer offered for every drug, that while you produce positive effects for one thing, the drug itself can induce something else. We've all heard the commercials about side effects. If the drug claims to prevent or mitigate the effects of a neurological disorder, one may also ecerpience heart palpatations or something more serious as a direct result of taking that drug.
I like naturopathy because it seeks alternative answers before using drugs. I don't think it could hurt. And there definitely seems to be alot of naturopathy 'haters' out there, for whatever reason. Its one thing to say that it foesn't work, but the alternative is dangerous pharameucitcals that people essentially become addicted to. I just believe strongly that alternatives should be sought in every case before going to pharmacology.
Just because you are an evangelical Christian, it doesn't follow that you have to be foolishly gullible and fall for all of the bogus medical advice that is being peddled on Christian radio.
Okay, where did this come from? Why do you think my endorsement of naturopathy comes from Christian radio?

Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by nwr, posted 11-21-2006 8:22 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by nwr, posted 11-21-2006 9:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 73 by nator, posted 11-21-2006 9:56 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 327 (365484)
11-22-2006 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by nator
11-21-2006 9:56 PM


Re: Great thread, very eloquent
But Juggs, using herbs IS pharmacology. They are drugs.
Synthetic drugs is what I'm referring to, not botanicals.
If herbs weren't drugs, then taking them wouldn't have any effect. That's WHY people take them, isn't it? That's why they are called "medicinal herbs", right?
Yes, but I'm saying that if a natural remedy exists, why take synthetic drugs that have many different side effects? If that remedy doesn't remedy you, then, sure, try another avenue.
We literally do not know what chemicals many of these herbs contain, and some of them have hundreds and even thousands of compounds. Some might be useful, some inert, and some toxic.
Let me give your a for-instance: Many people by lozenges to help with sore throats when they could just gargle some salt water or a lemon/honey/water solution. And anything could become toxic in excess. For instance, alot of people take Vitamin A supplements. I think we'd all agree that vitamin A is good for you in a proper dosage, but you can consume toxic levels.
Curare is natural. Arsenic is natural. Cyanide is natural.
So are vitamins. Some things in nature can kill you and others can heal you. That really bears no reflection on the matter. Neither of those have any medicinal purpose to them. Codeine does, but it kills people too.

Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by nator, posted 11-21-2006 9:56 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by nator, posted 11-22-2006 7:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 91 by Coragyps, posted 11-22-2006 9:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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