Understanding through Discussion

Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 86 (8994 total)
60 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK, Tangle (3 members, 57 visitors)
Newest Member: Juvenissun
Post Volume: Total: 879,320 Year: 11,068/23,288 Month: 320/1,763 Week: 287/390 Day: 8/99 Hour: 0/4

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Author Topic:   Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?
Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 75 of 327 (365327)
11-22-2006 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by purpledawn
11-22-2006 7:26 AM

Rubella and whooping cough.
Wouldn't it be more practical to give the vaccine closer to child bearing years instead of to young children? Do males even need to be vaccinated?

As has been explained, mass vaccination gives herd immunity.

Whooping Cough is another that may be more practical to give the vaccine at an older age. Again, would males need to?

As the quote you give shows, 50% of cases are unimmunized children under 1 year old. Raising the age of immunization would increase the number of cases.

Why put it off?

Given our sanitation today in the home and in food production, Diphtheria and tetanus are two more than may be more practical and maybe safer if given at an older age...

Or "maybe" not. Where's the evidence? If there is none, then it's better to have children immunized earlier to prevent them from contracting these rather nasty diseases.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by purpledawn, posted 11-22-2006 7:26 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 80 of 327 (365339)
11-22-2006 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
11-20-2006 7:36 PM

Re: autism-sorry, long
Although government “experts” continue to maintain there is no link between autism and vaccines, they offer no alternative theory for the skyrocketing number of cases.

Doesn't he know that when scientists can't explain something, that means that goddidit?

God or extraterrestrials.

In any case, it can't be caused by the measles vaccine. If it was, then the numbers would have risen sharply with the introduction of the vaccine, and then plateaued at the new, higher, level. If the number of cases of autism is "skyrocketing", the measles vaccine can't be the cause.

As a devout Pastafarian, I blame it on the decline in the number of pirates.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 11-20-2006 7:36 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 84 of 327 (365441)
11-22-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by purpledawn
11-22-2006 3:04 PM

I apologized twice, and if it still rankles, I'll apologize again. I was wrong and I'm sorry, OK?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by purpledawn, posted 11-22-2006 3:04 PM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by purpledawn, posted 11-23-2006 4:16 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 94 of 327 (365543)
11-23-2006 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by purpledawn
11-23-2006 4:46 AM

Re: Proper Testing
Q: What do you call alternative medicine which has been tested and shown to be effective?

A: Medicine!

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by purpledawn, posted 11-23-2006 4:46 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 96 of 327 (365577)
11-23-2006 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by purpledawn
11-23-2006 4:46 AM

Re: Proper Testing
The difference being that synthetic drugs are isolated, purified, consistently-potent, and regulated by law, and botanical drugs are not.

And a lot of people are trying to get that changed.

And when they are isolated, purified, consistently-potent, and regulated by law --- and have been shown to be safe and effective by the regulators --- then they'll be real medicine.

Chinese Medicine Gaining Respectability in West

From that article:

Jian He Chen uses these substances to make up a remedy for hay fever in a Chinese medicine pharmacy at the Superior Trading Co. in San Francisco.

Red dates
Citrus peel
Poria cocos
Schizandra berries
Bitter almond
Honey-cured licorice root slices
Ephedra stems


Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by purpledawn, posted 11-23-2006 4:46 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 9:11 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 99 of 327 (365698)
11-24-2006 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by purpledawn
11-24-2006 6:59 AM

Re: Change Resistant
You know who is most resistant to this sort of change in the botanical drug industry?

Anyone who stands to make big money off of either industry. I could die from lack of surprise.

On the contrary. The pharmaceutical industry stands to make money out of having the quacks propoerly regulated, as they are. Why should they want the competition to be free of the regulations which they have to labor under.

If the manufacturer makes a claim of curing a disease then the supplement falls under the regulations for drugs.

Yeah, so they cheat.

Dr Rita Louise doesn't really claim that homeopathic medicine is intended for treatment "of any disease of any kind" : Homeopathic Medicine for Adults... acne, alergy, appetite control, arthritis, asthma... Disclaimer: I acknowledge that the teachings and methods of Rita Louise, Ph.D. are not intended for the diagnosis, treatment, care, alleviation, mitigation, prevention or care of any disease of any kind, in anyway... In addition, I hereby attest and affirm that I am here as a client, on this and any subsequent visits, solely on my behalf and not as an agent for federal, state or local agencies on a mission of entrapment or for any investigative purpose.

Dr J. D. Decupere, chiropractor, doesn't really claim to treat high blood pressure : After much investigation and analysis, Dr. Decuypere has found an answer. Advanced Pressure Control is a special product combining Chinese herbal components and all-natural ingredients, reported by hundreds of thousands of patients to lower blood pressure within one to seven days. "I have had positive results with every one of my patients suffering from high blood pressure, and the most exciting part is that there are no side effects." ... Disclaimer... These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Michael Biamonte doesn't really claim to treat candida : CLICK HERE TO CONTACT US ABOUT OUR CANDIDA TREATMENT PROGRAM... Medical Disclaimer... We make no attempts to cure any "condition." We make no claims or imply any claims that suggestions are given to cure any condition. We do not claim that any nutritional supplements such as vitamins, minerals, herbs or proteins will cure any condition, nor that its purpose is to cure any condition. Neither Michael Biamonte CCN nor his staff intends to practice medicine in any way... We do not prescribe, nor do we treat disease.

Scientologists don't really claim anything at all about their Purification treatment : Purification program can improve personality --- and IQ! Find out about the only effective program that eliminates the devastating effects of drugs and toxins... Medical Disclaimer: The Purification® program cannot be construed as a recommendation of medical treatment or medication. It is not professed to be physical or medical treatment nor is any such claim made. There are no medical recommendations or claims for the Purification program or for any of the vitamin or mineral regimens described in this book.... The author makes no warranties or representation as to the effectiveness of the Purification program.

Karen Ryan doesn't really claim to give medical advice : Turquoise is excellent for boosting the immune system. It is a stone which protects the whole body. If you suffer from internal disorders such as stomach flu or systemic immune problems, Turquoise can help alleviate the symptoms. If you have frequent head colds, viruses, lung congestion, etc., I suggest the Amethyst to help rebuild your immunity. Wear a pendant of either the Turquoise or Amethyst crystal about 1-1/2 inches over the Heart Chakra. Also, Purple or Green Fluorite is better for unblocking head or sinus or ear congestion. You should feel some improvements after a few days of wearing the crystals... DISCLAIMER: Any advice given here... should not be construed as medical advice.

Electroacupuncturists don't really claim to improve "any disease condition whatsoever" : Dr Voll's Electroacupuncture is based on Traditional Chinese Medicine, which has a history going back thousands of years and which uses acupuncture to detect the energetic disturbances which are regarded as being the root causes of the symptoms of disease. The originator of electroacupuncture, Dr Reinhold Voll, succeeded in the electronic location and rebalancing of acupuncture points. Disclaimer... Absolutely no claims are made that this will result in improvement in any disease condition whatsoever.

Reiki practitioners don't really claim to offer medical treatment : Reiki, meaning 'universal life energy' is a form of energy healing which is now increasingly recognized for its ability to heal on all levels (physical, mental, emotional and spiritual) and promote total holistic well-being. It energizes and heals the body... DISCLAIMER... teachers/practitioners do not diagnose medical conditions, nor do they perform medical treatment.

"Sound therapists" don't really claim that "sound therapy" works : When vibration is in balance the body is healthy. When a disease or dis-ease is present we can become unhealthy. It is possible to use sound to project the correct resonant frequency of that part of the body which is vibrating out of harmony back into the body, causing it to return to its natural frequency and return to a state of health... Disclaimer... None of the machines, devices or equipment are intended to diagnosis or treat any physical or mental/emotional disease or condition.

Ronnie Allen doesn't really claim that "gem elixirs" treat disease : I made a gem elixir with the following stones: Apricot aventurine: Treats disorders of the lungs and adrenal glands... Petrified wood: Treatment of atrophied portions of the body, paralysis... Sugilite: used in treatment of disease, asthma These gem elixirs do work! ... Disclaimer... Healing and medicine are two different things... No methods taught by Ronnie Allen are for the purpose of diagnosing, treating, alleviating, mitigating, curing, preventing, or caring for disease in any way whatsoever.

Radionics woos don't really claim that their product works : Radionics is a method of healing and diagnosing at a distance... Disclaimer... no claims to diagnose, treat or cure diseases are implied.

And then there's these people. I still can't figure out exactly what it is that they don't really claim to be able to do, but anyone who can describe themselves as "A Non-Traditional School of Ancient Learning" has won a little place in my heart.


You see the dodge? First they claim they can treat a condition, then they put in tiny print at the bottom of the website the statement that they don't claim to treat any condition.

This is because they are liars, swindlers, and crooks.

If the herb is used correctly, what side effects have you heard of for any specific herb or supplement?

By "correctly", you mean as prescribed by a herbalist?

I gave you a link to the FDA's report on ephedra, which the Chinese herbalist in your link is still flogging to cure hayfever.

You might also check out Black Cohosh (also known as Black Snake Root, Bugwort, Bugbane, Squawroot, Rattleweed, Rattle Root, and Cimicifuga). This causes cancer: a look round the Internet shows that herbalists are still selling it.

Personally, I'd prefer not to put something in my body that is made from something I wouldn't normally choose to ingest.

And when you take a herb, which contains thousands of chemicals, how do you check which of those chemicals you would "normally choose to ingest".

While the label may say synthetic, they don't say what it was derived from.

In the case of iron oxide, that would be iron and oxygen. I forget the chemical formula for alcohol.

There may be times when a synthetic drug is necessary, but if there is a natural possibility; I want the right to choose what goes into my body.

I prefer those substances which have been tested and shown to be safe and effective: but tastes differ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 6:59 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Modulous, posted 11-24-2006 8:00 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 106 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 12:04 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 104 of 327 (365714)
11-24-2006 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by purpledawn
11-24-2006 9:11 AM

Re: Ephedra
And your point is what concerning ephedra stems for hayfever?

That ephedra is bad for you.

To quote from the link which you gave:

"As with a lot of other marketable stimulants, adverse side effects are not uncommon. The alkaloids of ma huang can cause rapid or irregular heartbeat, very similar to the effects of adrenaline. Blood pressure rises. Unfortunately, there have been reported cases of liver injury and hepatitis, and users experience aggressiveness, anxiety, and tremors. This leads to poor judgment, and thus potential injuries. Complications from these side effects can result in cerebral hemorrhage, cardiac arrest, and, of course, death. Prolonged use of the drug, which is not recommended, can be the cause of weakened adrenal glands, nervousness, and insomnia."

He's mixing up a remedy for hayfever, not putting it in a dietary supplement. (A dietary supplement is a product taken by mouth that contains a "dietary ingredient" intended to supplement the diet.)

I think you'll find that it's equally bad for you however it's marketed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by purpledawn, posted 11-24-2006 9:11 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006

Message 140 of 327 (366333)
11-27-2006 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
11-24-2006 11:16 PM

Re: tentative devil's advocate
Antibiotics are a danger to your immune system.


Alternatively, why not use probiotics. Have you heard how these are doing so much for the enhancement of health via the wholistic route?

No, do please show me some figures.

They are good bacteria you take to overwhelm the bad bacteria which cause disease et al. Echinacea, ascorbic acid, garlic (especially aged garlic), Zinc, magnesium, pleurisy root, cayenne, aloe vera, alfalfa and a host of other food suppliments can do safely what harmful antibiotics do to treat and prevent infections and diseases without the harmful side effects. With these the side effects are all good and most of these are foods which you cannot overdose on.

I, my family and a host of other folks apprised on this stuff go year in and year out without the use of any antibiotics or immune shots of any kind.

So do I. I attribute my survival to my possession of an immune system, rather than to paying out good money for a bunch of "supplement" quackery, "probiotics", and other such flummery.

I do eat garlic, but not for my health.

You may regard me as a control group.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 11-24-2006 11:16 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Buzsaw, posted 11-27-2006 8:09 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 143 by purpledawn, posted 11-27-2006 9:09 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:

Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020