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Author Topic:   Childhood Vaccinations – Necessary or Overkill?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 301 of 327 (427383)
10-11-2007 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 10:01 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
My child is not a leper and I am not going to let anyone treat her as such. She is not a walking cesspit of disease.

no, she's probably not a leper. but i'd avoid armadillos. actually, there's a good chance she is a cesspit of disease. most people are, especially children. but, if you really want to ensure that you don't put others at risk, you should take all precautions. you suggested partial quarantine, i just took it to it's logical conclusion.

There is a link to the CDC site in my post to Molbio girl where the ingredients of vaccines are listed. This should not now be in dispute.

your link produced a page that does not exist. i'd suspect your monkey tissue doesn't either.

It is also a fact that a mother who has acquired immunity to polio, measles, mumps and chicken pox will confer that immunity to her child during its first few months of life.

yes, temporarily. shortly, these aquired immunities leave the infant's system.

Do you not bother to look up any information?

do you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:01 AM Kitsune has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:30 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 302 of 327 (427388)
10-11-2007 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by nator
10-11-2007 10:07 AM


Re: Relevant Recent News about Vaccination Policies
my mom had a great uncle. he was "odd". he was also brilliant. he stayed at home and did his own weird thing. how odd was he? he had two rows of teeth because he refused to let anyone pull the baby ones. but, he knew everything about everything. one of the things my mother has decided through her psychological training is that this uncle had asperger's syndrome. but then, he was just a "retard".
This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by nator, posted 10-11-2007 10:07 AM nator has not yet responded

Kitsune
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 303 of 327 (427389)
10-11-2007 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by macaroniandcheese
10-11-2007 10:12 AM


Re: Relevant Recent News about Vaccination Policies
I think it's lovely that you touched those children's lives in such a way. However, it has to be said that this in itself does not qualify you to diagnose the causes of autism.

studies have demonstrated that the vaccines clearly have nothing to do with the rise, but rather more ready diagnosis.

Cite them please, and give links so that I can look them up.

it's hereditary.

Source?

a genetically sourced subarrousal of the frontal lobe.

Source?

tell me how a vaccine can cause physical trauma. please.

From the UK government's Vaccine Damage Payment Website:

What counts as 'severely disabled'?
Disablement is worked out as a percentage, and 'severe disablement' is defined as a disability of at least 60 per cent. This could be a mental or physical disability.

For example, total loss of sight or hearing is usually counted as a 100 per cent disablement.

They accept that vaccine damage occurs and they pay up to £120,000 tax-free for it.

You appear to be unaware of Linus Pauling's work with vitamin C, and hundreds of subsequent studies showing it to be beneficial in a myriad of ways. This is off topic here however; it has been discussed in the holistic medicine threads.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:12 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:45 AM Kitsune has responded
 Message 319 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 12:18 PM Kitsune has not yet responded

  
Kitsune
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 304 of 327 (427390)
10-11-2007 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by macaroniandcheese
10-11-2007 10:22 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
I don't know why my link didn't work. This one should. It is the list of vaccine ingredients on the CDC website.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:22 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:50 AM Kitsune has responded
 Message 311 by kjsimons, posted 10-11-2007 11:21 AM Kitsune has not yet responded
 Message 316 by LinearAq, posted 10-11-2007 11:47 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1652 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 305 of 327 (427391)
10-11-2007 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 9:45 AM


Screening
Obviously vaccines don't wreak havoc on everybody. Hopefully through more study there will be a way to tell before vaccinations if a child is genetically susceptible to an adverse reaction.

Autism: Lots of clues, but still no answers

There could be a whole host of chemicals that wreak havoc on the brains of genetically susceptible individuals, team member Isaac Pessah of the University of California, Davis, told the meeting. He points out that according to the US National Toxicology Report, between 60 and 80 per cent of the chemicals we are exposed to through pesticides, cosmetics and foods have not undergone adequate risk assessment.

You know as well as I do, or should, that we aren't carbon copies and we all don't react the same even to identical situations. It would be nice if a means to assess the individual's risks were available. Maybe someday there will be if there isn't any.

Maybe a practical approach for those concerned with possible risks of vaccinations is to make sure their child has less exposure to the other chemicals we come in contact with.

We can't really decide what is right for the majority. Since autism seems to be on the rise, the possible environmental factors will probably be addressed.

Complicating the story still further is the apparent rise in autism. The Autism Society of America estimates that there was an increase of 172 per cent in the US in the 1990s, though the population grew only 13 per cent. It is still not clear if the rise is due to some new, presumably environmental, factor or if doctors are simply becoming better at diagnosing the disorder.

Eventually maybe they'll be able to discern what may aggravate an already susceptible individual so they can act accordingly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 9:45 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 306 of 327 (427393)
10-11-2007 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 10:26 AM


Re: Relevant Recent News about Vaccination Policies
However, it has to be said that this in itself does not qualify you to diagnose the causes of autism.

no, but commonly known studies (which you somehow haven't seen) do.

Cite them please, and give links so that I can look them up.

someone beat me to it.

Source?

sorry, adhd as hereditary is common fucking knowledge. it's the first thing they tell you when you're diagnosed. my brother has it, my mom has it, my dad had it, my maternal grandfather has it, his sister has it, my paternal grandfather probably had it, his other children have it. my fiance has it, his father has it, his mother have it, but she's more importantly probably bipolar, my brother's wife has it, her father has it, her mother has it, all the children i will have will probably have it. the subarrousal of the frontal lobe is also common knowledge. and if it isn't, it ought to be. it's like napoleon crossed the alps in may of 1800. everyone knows it.

From the UK government's Vaccine Damage Payment Website:

how does this demonstrate physical trauma? the us government requires the teaching of abstinence only education. just because a government does somehting doesn't mean it's well founded. governments are often run by complete idiots.

disablement is not necessarily physical trauma.

They accept that vaccine damage occurs and they pay up to £120,000 tax-free for it.

that's nice. i wish i had a way to make my government let me scam it.

You appear to be unaware of Linus Pauling's work with vitamin C

and gladly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:26 AM Kitsune has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 11:01 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 307 of 327 (427396)
10-11-2007 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 10:30 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
thank you.

i'm still unimpressed. did you think viruses can survive without a cell home for very long? they've got to get them from somewhere.

i notice you didn't flip out about the egg albumin or chick kidney cells, which no doubt serves the same purpose. why are cows and monkeys scary?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:30 AM Kitsune has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 11:03 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Kitsune
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 308 of 327 (427398)
10-11-2007 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by macaroniandcheese
10-11-2007 10:45 AM


Re: Relevant Recent News about Vaccination Policies
no, but commonly known studies (which you somehow haven't seen) do.

If we're debating here and you make a claim, it is good form to cite your source so that I can verify your information. I am not aware that a single cause of autism has definitively been proven.

adhd as hereditary is common *** knowledge

"Common knowledge" is not empirical evidence, as Percy and others have painstakingly been telling me. I need to see studies.

I don't doubt that you and your family suffer from this, as you say. It's entirely possible that there is a genetic predisposition for it. However, a genetic predisposition does not mean a guarantee that a person will develop a condition.

You might want to try considering this from an alt med position. Maybe not. But diet, nutrition, and environment can be powerful factors in things like depression, ADHD, possibly even autism. This is what Purple Dawn was suggesting in her post I believe. There are many factors to take into consideration now, with the prevalence of these conditions on the rise. There could be a food like milk that your family is sensitive to, which triggers symptoms. Chemicals in the environment could trigger symptoms for you. Nutritional deficiencies. Vaccines. This is all speculation, but my point is that nothing here is proven, not even that autism and ADHD are definitely genetic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:45 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 11:17 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

  
Kitsune
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 309 of 327 (427400)
10-11-2007 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by macaroniandcheese
10-11-2007 10:50 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
Monkey tissue = SV40 (simian virus in the polio vaccine)

Bovine tissue = BSE

But yes it's all disturbing, especially since children today receive so many more vaccinations than they did a few decades ago. It means more of these substances being injected at the same time, and more often.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 10:50 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-11-2007 11:29 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 310 of 327 (427403)
10-11-2007 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 11:01 AM


Re: Relevant Recent News about Vaccination Policies
There are many factors to take into consideration now, with the prevalence of these conditions on the rise.

the cases are not on the rise, it is the DIAGNOSIS that is on the rise.

But diet, nutrition, and environment can be powerful factors in things like depression, ADHD, possibly even autism.

things like depression, adhd, and autism can be aggravated by the generalized malaise that can come with allergies. my behavior was MUCH worse when i was allergic to foods (cheddar, blue cheeses, apple anything, red grape anything, oats) when i was younger. my behavior was worse when i was aggitated from my monthly hemorhage. depo has since solved that problem. it's like this. if you're trying to not stab someone who is yelling at you, you might be able to do it. but not if someone else is continuously poking you with something and driving you nuts.

There could be a food like milk that your family is sensitive to, which triggers symptoms. Chemicals in the environment could trigger symptoms for you.

my symptoms are not triggered. they are systemic.

This is what Purple Dawn was suggesting in her post I believe.

i think she was referring to environmental factors such as pollution and such, not personal food exposure. as to that, there is almost no similarity in the environment that my grandfather was raised in in 1920s detroit, the life my other grandfather led as a child in 1900s in wyoming and the life i've lived in suburban, nonindustrial communities throughout the southern united states.

This is all speculation, but my point is that nothing here is proven, not even that autism and ADHD are definitely genetic.

says you who refuses to look at evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 11:01 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 667
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 311 of 327 (427404)
10-11-2007 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 10:30 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
Did you not read your own link? Specifically:

Includes vaccine ingredients (e.g., adjuvants and preservatives) as well as substances used during the manufacturing process,
including vaccine-production media, that are removed from the final product and present only in trace quantities.

and

*Where “thimerosal” is marked with an asterisk (*) it indicates that the product should be considered equivalent to
thimerosal-free products. This vaccine may contain trace amounts (<3 mcg) of mercury left after post-production
thimerosal removal, but these amounts have no biological effect. JAMA 1999;282(18) and JAMA 2000;283(16)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 10:30 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 312 of 327 (427407)
10-11-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 11:03 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
Monkey tissue = SV40 (simian virus in the polio vaccine)

wow. you don't even read the rest of your own sources.

IPV has monkey kidney tissue
Rabies has Rhesus fetal lung tissue
DTaP/HEpB/IPV has monkey kidney tissue

5 of these have human albumin or serum. omg people!!! vaccines are soylent green!

Bovine tissue = BSE

the following vaccines have bovine or calf extract, protein, or albumin/serum

DTaP (3 varieties)
DTaP/Hib
DTaP/HepB/IPV
DT
Hep A (Vaqta)
IPV
Measles
Mumps
MMR
MMRV
Pneumococcal (max)
Rabies (Rabavert)
Rotavirus
Rubella
Td (Dec)
Tdap
Typhoid (oral)
Vaccinia
Zoster

yes it's all disturbing

i'm not disturbed. certainly not by including protein from THINGS I EAT in stuff being injected into my body (no i haven't eaten monkeys, but i would). i'm only mildly concerned by the inclusion of formaldehyde and formalin, but not terribly. it's funny that you're not flipping out about the "increase" in cancer. no, it's AUTISM. fruitcakes.

It means more of these substances being injected at the same time, and more often.

dear god someone give me more bovine protein. please. i'm hungry now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 11:03 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2122 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 313 of 327 (427409)
10-11-2007 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by kjsimons
10-11-2007 11:21 AM


Re: Vaccinations for public health?
Did you not read your own link?

no. she didn't even read the part that *might* support her position. why would she read something that *might* refute it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by kjsimons, posted 10-11-2007 11:21 AM kjsimons has not yet responded

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 314 of 327 (427410)
10-11-2007 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Kitsune
10-11-2007 8:46 AM


Re: Childhood Illnesses and "Protection"
This sounds spurious to me but I have no way of knowing for sure without seeing the actual studies.

This from a woman who deduced a causal link from getting her cavities filled one month and clinical depression two months after that!

I would be more than happy to research the link between the two, but I sincerely doubt you would appreciate my effort.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Kitsune, posted 10-11-2007 8:46 AM Kitsune has not yet responded

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 315 of 327 (427412)
10-11-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by purpledawn
10-11-2007 10:35 AM


Autism on the rise
A minor point, PD.

Since autism seems to be on the rise, the possible environmental factors will probably be addressed.

The diagnosis of autism is on the rise. Not the disease itself.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by purpledawn, posted 10-11-2007 10:35 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

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