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Author Topic:   A question to those who work in any science field.
Justin Horne
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 29 (125515)
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Hello all...
I've posted here a couple of times, never really gave much of an introduction or anything. I'm going into sophomore yeah (high school.) I was looking into college majors just for the heck of it, and I'm thinking maybe bio-chem. I am really into science and more of the laboratory type. My question is this: To those in school or that have a job in a field of science (especially bio-chem related) how hard is it to find a good job? I don't mean a high paying job, just a job that lets you use your skills and get by. I'd hate to major then not have anything to do with it... Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks to everyone who has given me hours of reading and a lot to memorize (Lam comes to mind here, crashfrog too...)
Justin Horne

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by SRO2, posted 07-18-2004 10:02 PM Justin Horne has not replied
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 07-19-2004 12:12 AM Justin Horne has not replied
 Message 10 by coffee_addict, posted 07-19-2004 1:42 AM Justin Horne has not replied
 Message 14 by Mammuthus, posted 07-19-2004 4:25 AM Justin Horne has not replied
 Message 15 by Loudmouth, posted 07-19-2004 6:23 PM Justin Horne has replied
 Message 16 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-19-2004 7:46 PM Justin Horne has replied
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 Message 29 by inkorrekt, posted 03-02-2006 9:43 PM Justin Horne has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 29 (125517)
07-18-2004 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


You might want to go to the website of the American Chemical Society and poke around their career pages -
404: Not Found - American Chemical Society
They will have at least some indication of how that job market is and how its future looks. I'm not in biochem, but from looking at the want ads in journals like Science, it is certainly the hot field in chemistry right now. You may want to seriously think about going past a batchelor's degree to get a little more clout in job-hunting. Grad school in chemistry will likele pay for itself - you will be in demand to teach undergrads - as long as you don't mind eating beans and store-brand macaroni and cheese for four years. Be prepared, though, to study harder than you now dream possible when you get to the actual biochemistry courses. And they'll make you take calculus and probably beyond, though you'll likely never use it.

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3 of 29 (125524)
07-18-2004 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Beware of organic chemistry. I didn't have to face it myself, but at my university it was said to separate the men from the future business majors.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Justin Horne, posted 07-18-2004 8:00 PM Justin Horne has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 29 (125527)
07-18-2004 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Regardless of what you end up with as a major, consider taking as many business classes as you can as well. Science is great, but those who can also put together a budget and presentation, and talk to the money folk in terms the money folk understand...

get the grants.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 29 (125529)
07-18-2004 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Career
Hi Justin,
My degree is a BA in commercial art. I am currently (and have been for 20 years) working as a flight engineer on the Space Shuttle Main engines. My creativity, found a new home in propulsion...It's fascinating, science turns out to be more of an "art" than a science. It's not what your taught, but how you use it.
Many careers end up where they aren't planned to be, I can only tell you that if you feel good doing it, it was a good choice.
Allen

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Yaro, posted 07-18-2004 10:21 PM SRO2 has replied

  
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 6 of 29 (125531)
07-18-2004 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by SRO2
07-18-2004 10:02 PM


Re: Career
Yep, I studied Fine Art and went from webdesign to enterprise database programmer/developer. Go fugure?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 29 (125534)
07-18-2004 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Yaro
07-18-2004 10:21 PM


Re: Career
I can figure easy, it's raw talent and creativity that gets you there...I've seen some really "smart" people flop.

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Justin Horne
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 29 (125553)
07-18-2004 11:52 PM


I'd heard id have to take calc. Oh well, I'm pretty good in math, so it probably couldn't hurt. I also figured, like you said, Id have to study harder than I know now.. I kinda figured that too, but hoped it wouldn't be that bad.
That's really interesting, Allen. How did you go from commercial art to the shuttle? What made them accept you?
Thanks for the suggestion on the business classes. That does seem like a good idea.
Thankfully i am really into both chemistry and biological workings, so at least it's a major i can enjoy...
Thanks again, its actually helped!
Justin Horne

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 29 (125559)
07-19-2004 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Ok, well, I'm not employed in any science field and I don't have a degree in any science. (or at all, currently.) But my wife is a biology graduate student.
As far as careers go, she's looking at teaching high school science, doing teaching and/or research at a college/university, or working in the private sector. Her focus is entomology, so as far as the private sector goes, she's pretty much looking at agribusiness/pest control.
But there's always a need for skilled teachers, especially in the sciences. With a degree in biology and a teaching certification you can probably be employed in any school you like.
Oh, but here's one thing no one's mentioned yet - keep your writing/communication skills in top shape. Carl Sagan and Stephen Jay Gould may not have been the most brilliant scientists in their fields, but what they were unsurpassed at was comminicating the findings of science in a clear - and yet still correct - manner.
Publishing isn't just what scientists do for fame and money; it's possibly the most important part of the scientific method. What good is it to discover something but never tell anyone? It's sad that, while publishing is so important to scientists, few science programs seem to really emphasize the craft of writing. I've read a number of papers by science undergraduates and while the reasoning is sound and often brilliant, the writing is simply infantile. Clear writing is crucial in the sciences.
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 07-18-2004 11:17 PM

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 10 of 29 (125571)
07-19-2004 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Justin Horne writes:
I was looking into college majors just for the heck of it, and I'm thinking maybe bio-chem.
First of all, from now on, you shall be known as JH in my eyes
Bio-chem is a good one. I have to warn you that it is not easy.
As far as career goes, anything you get below a masters will either get you a teaching job or lab technician. If you do get a masters, it's still in the shaky area. Some people are successful with a masters and some people end up working in a fastfood place. It really depends on luck and persistance.
This is not from personal experience because I am still in school. However, there are 5 people in my nuclear family that are engineers of all the fields you can imagine(you name it), and one of them has a Ph.D. In the general fields of science (like bio, bio-chem, physics, etc...), anything below a Ph.D. is a toss up. If you want to take an easy way out, add the word "engineer" to your major and you probably won't have to spend 20 years in school.
Thanks to everyone who has given me hours of reading and a lot to memorize
Ok, so you are a nutcase Why memorize these junks that we write?

The Laminator

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Justin Horne
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 29 (125580)
07-19-2004 2:53 AM


JH works just fine...
.. Many people call me that. Don't know why either, but i don't care.
Alright, did a google search. Is chemical engineer the closest to what you were referring to. Reading a little about it, I could see how this would get more jobs. Seems to be a little more well rounded, etc..
Im sure it would be very hard, but science, especially biological, is one of the subjects that really interest me. Im sure the time would be very hard, but worth it to me to. Hey, if I wanted easy, I could skip college and go to the manager of burger king.. Whoo-hoo!
That is something though, I don't want to spend years in school ( I don't mean the 4 or 6). I'd like to learns what I can, the fastest I can, and in the most efficient way.. If that takes being an engineer, sure... Really though, money isn't the top of my goals. If I have a job that gives me enough money to not worry, and I enjoy it, I'm good.
JH.

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 12 of 29 (125583)
07-19-2004 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Justin Horne
07-19-2004 2:53 AM


Re: JH works just fine...
JH writes:
money isn't the top of my goals.
That's good to hear.
I recently met a former graduate of high school. He got his Ph.D. in molecular biology some years ago. He is currently doing hands on research on shark molecular biology. Anyway, he told me that without his wife, which is a successful business woman, he would have been living in a box right now.
The problem with having a degree in a general science field is that you are probably going to do research, and most people aren't interested in sponsoring a research that's not going to make a big splash on the news. With the word "engineer" attached to your degree, more options are openned to you in the private sector.
This is why my parents are really worried about me right now. I switched from bio pre-med to physics. Since there are already 5 people in my family who are engineers (economically successful, too), I don't want to be just another engineer in the family. I will probably be living in a box somewhere after I get my Ph.D.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Justin Horne, posted 07-19-2004 2:53 AM Justin Horne has not replied

  
Justin Horne
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 29 (125585)
07-19-2004 3:16 AM


That makes alot of sense. Even coming from the other perspective, i'd not want to sponsor research unless A) I believed in it, or B) it would get me money some how. Just because someone wants free money to research would not be enough to me. but at the same time, i'd love doing research. Finding out what tohers don't know, publishing stuff about it, all good. Even working whats already known works for me. I am certainly more of a "Well yeah, but why does it work like that?" person. So engineer is the thing to go for? What does that involve school wise? Take the bio chem course, and then a few extra years of field work? Any schools that are worth apying attention to (Keep in mind that The school can't be extremely expensive. My parents can't pay much of it, so all the cost will be scholarships or my work...D'oh!
And by the way, I also just learned how to pronounce your name NOT like the barnyard animal...
Thanks for all the info, very helpful indeed. Hearing from people who are there is really useful to me.

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 14 of 29 (125591)
07-19-2004 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Hi Justin,
I am a working scientist with a Ph.D. in human genetics. In terms of potential future jobs, your best bet is to stick with subjects with medical or industrial applications. Chemistry is not bad, particularly protein chemistry, as most companies are always looking for good protein chemists. But the bottom line is that if you are interesting in basic research you will struggle like hell. I unfortunately find pure medical research boring (my own prejudice) and have worked on molecular evolution and basic research in virology (with some prion research thrown in for flavor) and I have cost myself at least 6 years and several promotions relative to my colleagues from grad school. You also risk working in a field for a very long time and then not finding employment in science period. The companies and medical researchers will find you are too specialized in a non-applicable field and the number of basic research or higher academic positions are very scarce. With the exception of the UK, europe is a research wasteland. Germany in particular. Stick with the U.S. If you are really up for a career in basic research, prepare to give up a lot and live in constant risk of failing. If you are interested in biotech or medical research, the hours are still long and it can be difficult but you will have much greater opportunities.
Though my tone is negative I don't want to discourage you from trying to make it in the sciences...If you want it, you will make it...but the idea that you will be well supported, respected, and have golden opportunities in the sciences and that every day will bring an exciting new breakthrough is a myth and one should approach this career very carefully and with better planning than I did

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Justin Horne, posted 07-18-2004 8:00 PM Justin Horne has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 29 (125761)
07-19-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Justin Horne
07-18-2004 8:00 PM


Justin Horne,
Mammuthus hit it one the head. Grant money is hard to come by. On average, only about 20% of grant sumissions are approved. However, your first grant application will probably be accepted (first time researchers are kept separate from other applicants), but if subsequent grants don't make the cut you are fighting an uphill battle.
I have a BA in Zoology and am a self taught protein chemist of sorts (with some biochem thrown in). I work in a research lab as a technician. IOW, I let my boss worry about funding. If you want a glamorous lifestyle and a big paycheck, go into plastic surgery or movie acting. A technician's salary is about the same as a teacher's, so nothing too exciting there. There are exceptions, but the rule of thumb is that you would make more money joining the pipefitter's union than working in the sciences. However, for science junkies we wouldn't want to be doing anything else.
My advice would be to look into molecular biology, which stresses genetic manipulation of organisms and DNA technologies. This field is just booming, both in academia and within the industries. As far as the basic sciences, this is the one I would lean towards. With a molecular biology PhD (and sometiems Masters) you can work in forensics, industrial labs, research labs, food science labs, epidemiology, and the list goes on. We are slowly moving from the Industrial Age to the DNA Age, and I think this is where the jobs are at the moment. The best part is that if you are accepted to a grad school your tuition is paid for and you also get a stipend (otherwise known as slave wages). However, if you play your cards right, grad school won't cost you a dime, just four years of your life.
Hope this helps. Feel free to ask about any specifics.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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