Vent your frustration here

There you go again with the knee-jerk reactions. You need to learn to read what I said before you fire off an automatic "No it doesn't."I said:

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We're talking about your feelings toward women and lesbians' feelings toward women.

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Got that so far?Then I said:

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If the feelings are the same, it makes them gay, not you.

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In other words: If a woman is attracted to another woman, that means she's gay. If you are attracted to the same other woman, that doesn't mean you're gay.How can you disagree with that?

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What is it that I have said that is getting you frustrated?

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You write as though you know the will of God.At all.You don't. Nobody does.What you believe is that your interpretation of a particular many-times translated version of the collected writings (some of them, anyway) of one of many ancient Near-Eastern messianic cults, based on other people's interpretations, is the will of God.I mean, come on.Can't you see how arrogant that is?Who are you to think you know anything about what God wants?Who is anyone?Believe what you want, but don't then just expect anybody else to just accept that your beliefs are somehow based in anything other than your own personal, individual psyche.

Okay, I'm venting.Nothing frustates me more (that's not really true oh well) than to have a thread close while I am composing a reply.One thing that frustrates me more than that is watching someone who should know better--a moderator, for example--send a thread tilting off-topic...say, n_j, for example, in the recently closed thread, "What is feminism?"He sent that thread lurching off course several times, most recently by the sophomoric device of refuting criticism by mentioning menses. I can understand wanting a retort to "You're an insensitive shit!" but "Bloody woman!" isn't very effective.So, to exorcise those interlaced frustrations, here is what I was composing when the thread closed at the oh-so-important number of 300+:

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I've never known a woman well--wife, lover, boss, mother or sister--who didn't recognize menstrually associated mood shifts.

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Having said that, it seems to me that the true idiocy of n_j's position is the unspoken pretense that men are not creatures of their physiology, of hormones and flux. Close observation of my own moods and behaviors, and of other men's, persuades me that that are also rhythms (lunar, circadian, metabolic, who knows?) that affect us. I have certainly never seen evidence to support the categorization of PMS as a clinical pathology.

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Similar obtuseness applies to notions like "crack babies" (creatures that disappeared when more rigorous research replaced racist cant) and the presupposition that genetic risks associated with the age of the parent only exist for mothers (now we know that aging sperm is associated with a heightened risk for schizophrenia and other disorders).

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In other words, n_j is a stew of chemicals turning his nose up at another stew: i.e., he's stewpid.

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Like arguments about men deserving higher pay because they enjoy greater brute strength, which ignores the fact that many women are stronger than many men, sexist thinkers regard their gender identity as an absolute rather than the relative, composite thing that it is: give them a place to stand, and they will screw the world.

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Here we find the ground of homophobia, as well, where we see that the loud homophobic usually finds his resonance in some corner of the closet.

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Thanks. That's better.

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Very simply. Our feelings are not the same, if they were, then I would be feeling the same thing as her, gay.

I agree, sort of.Do you think it is possible to know God's will for yourself? To a point?I mean if God existed, and you sought after Him, wouldn't He somehow let you know?

For God's sake, look at what you're writing. You're saying that if you were attracted to a certain woman, you'd be gay.How can a man attracted to a woman be gay?

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Do you think it is possible to know God's will for yourself? To a point?

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I have no way of knowing if such a thing is possible, and neither does anybody else.Vast, vast numbers of people currently and over several millenia believe(d) vast, vast numbers of very contradictory things about what their preferred supernatural entity wants.Add to that the fact that humans are very good at making up all sorts of explanations for things and attaching supernatural reasoning to them. We are pattern and meaning-seeking creatures, and we like to see patterns when there are none, and we like to attach meaning when there is none.We are also the only species on the planet, I think, that knows ahead of time that we are going to die.Lastly, we can stick electrodes in people's brains and give them feelings of being connected to the divine.

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I mean if God existed, and you sought after Him, wouldn't He somehow let you know?

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If your God of the Bible existed, I suppose He would, but there is no reason to believe that your particular beliefs are any more or less correct than any other religious belief that has ever existed.You erroneously assign meaning, as humans are wont to do, to certain experiences and due to your cultural indoctrination in Christianity, decide to believe that the Christian God is the cause of those experiences.Another person in a different culture could have those experiences yet not assign the meaning to them that you did, and might perhaps consider them caused by demons, or a different deity, or they might not assign any meaning to them at all.There is no reason whatsoever to think that any belief in any supernatural thing has any more validity than any other.They are each equally baseless.

Listen to yourself - and you call me arrogant!Shraff, you have proclaimed these kind of generalized poppycock statements add nauseum for many years now, without having answers for the problems I have shown you. This shows you only have one set of answers taught to you by your ilk. All you do is then repeat them at me.Compositionally, all you're doing is stating things about believers in general, thinking that has some credence in regards to the individual. It doesn't because it's also fallacious to say something about the unit, by trying to infer something from the whole.I am not indoctrinated - nor are my thoughts foggy, in the least. Nor am I a pattern-seeker. You'll just have to learn to live with this.What you will never learn is that the truth-value of our experience is completely un-affected by your assertions, no matter how hard you try to show that they are "baseless".Baseless - but true. And if true, then what does it matter if it is "baseless"?I tuned out of your broken record centuries ago.

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Shraff, you have proclaimed these kind of generalized poppycock statements add nauseum for many years now, without having answers for the problems I have shown you. This shows you only have one set of answers taught to you by your ilk. All you do is then repeat them at me.

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IIRC, you have been shown that your questions spring from faulty premises and you handwave away or ignore the logical implications.

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Compositionally, all you're doing is stating things about believers in general, thinking that has some credence in regards to the individual. It doesn't because it's also fallacious to say something about the unit, by trying to infer something from the whole.

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If an individual has a "correct" belief about God or gods, how would they know?

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I am not indoctrinated

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Of course you are. Sa am I. Everyone who lives in a culture is indoctrinated into that culture.

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- nor are my thoughts foggy, in the least. Nor am I a pattern-seeker. You'll just have to learn to live with this.

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LOL! Mike, remember that magical explanation you had for why your bible was opening on a certain page, and I suggested that it was opening that way because the binding was slightly bent in that place? Remember how you conceded that you had been thinking that God was wanting you to read certain passages but that I was right that it was just that the book had been opened in that place so many times that it had a "memory"?That's an example of you seeing a magcal explanation AND a pattern, all in one.You are human, mike, just like everybody else, and that means you are a pattern-seeker. You'll just have to learn to live with it. I suggest you accept it so that you can better apply your bullshit detector to what you choose to believe. Somehow, I think your detector is in need of a tune-up.

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What you will never learn is that the truth-value of our experience is completely un-affected by your assertions, no matter how hard you try to show that they are "baseless".

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How do you know it is true, and not just something you made up inside your head?

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Baseless - but true. And if true, then what does it matter if it is "baseless"?

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Just deciding that something is true, based upon nothing but what you, personally, want to believe, seems like a poor way to find out if the belief is correct or not.Like I said, you can believe what you want, but don't expect anybody else to take your belief seriously or respect it. Why should anyone respect a belief that cannot be demonstrated to be based in anything other than imagination?

Thanks for speaking for all of us.
I think you should stick to what you know, just like you tell the rest of us believers. Which means one of many things, and proves nothing. I disagree. Many dogs wander off to die. Again, which proves nothing. Well there is reason, but you have to figure that out for yourself. I would not say erroneously. I don't get caught up in judging those situations. If there is a God who created everything, then He knows what is going on. If it was my calling to understand it, and do something about it, He will let me know. [qs]There is no reason whatsoever to think that any belief in any supernatural thing has any more validity than any other.They are each equally baseless.[/q]sTotally untrue. There are many reasons, you may just not have experienced them yet, or you just don't care to seek them out.

That's not what I said at all.I said if my feelings where the same as her's, I'd be gay.It's just not the same, and you haven't shown how it could be. So unless you want to start a topic, based soley on that idea, and discuss, I am to conclude that I am correct.

Judging by how often you post here, I'd say you have PMS (pissed man syndrome).

And that's (idiotically) wrong.You have no way of knowing whether or not your feelings are different.

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Let me rephrase in one sentence what Schraf said. I don't know, and you don't know either.How on Earth is that arrogant?

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Disclaimer:

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Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

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He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Ringo, there's one thing you should know about riverrat. He's the kind of guy that would never admit to being wrong at anything.A little while ago, I had a discussion with riverrat. This resulted in me calling him a liar. Why? Because he claimed that god never cause any suffering or anything like that. He just allows it to happen. I gave him an example in which god admitted to cause human suffering.2 Samuel 12

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11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "

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In this very passage, god admitted that he would cause David's son to rebel against him, which we know would explode into a civil war and 40 thousand people would die as a result. God also admitted to directly cause David's son to rape David's wives. In other words, God killed over 40 thousand people just to punish David.Riverrat was able to look straight into my eyes (figuratively, of course) and said that "God allowed it to happen".Why did I call riverrat a liar? Right there before your very eyes, he'd rather lie than admit he was wrong. I didn't even offer any interpretation. I was just citing the bible word for word.So, what on Earth makes you think your current conversation with riverrat will get anywhere?Added by edit.Oh, and let's not forget how god directly struck a newborn child that was completely innocent.2 Samuel 12

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13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, [a] the son born to you will die."

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15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.

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18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."

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My frustration? I have admitted many times that I was wrong when I was shown to be wrong. The smoking issue, for example. I used to not support any legislation that would ban smoking in restaurants and such until someone pointed out that restaurants and such are people's work places, also. I promptly admitted that I was wrong. What bothers me is some people just have too much testosterone to ever admit they're wrong. Even if tomorrow god appears and tell them they're wrong, they will somehow try to weasle their way out.Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

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Disclaimer:

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Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

​

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!