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Author Topic:   Valentine's Day Challenge
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4502 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 31 of 55 (385281)
02-14-2007 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Archer Opteryx
02-14-2007 9:43 PM


Re: Just a Thought
Archer Opterix writes:

A key element in any love story is the contrast it makes with the world of Montagues and Capulets everywhere.

The only unfortunate thing is that for all practical purposes, the sweetness of love is often made bitter by the unyielding of those around you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-14-2007 9:43 PM Archer Opteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 2147 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 32 of 55 (385286)
02-14-2007 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by anastasia
02-14-2007 9:50 PM


Re: Just a Thought
The only unfortunate thing is that for all practical purposes, the sweetness of love is often made bitter by the unyielding of those around you.

Then the story is a tragedy.


This message is a reply to:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 33 of 55 (385325)
02-15-2007 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Archer Opteryx
02-14-2007 12:24 PM


Re: Feast Day
I want to write you
a love poem as headlong
as our creek
after thaw
when we stand
on its dangerous
banks and watch it carry
with it every twig
every dry leaf and branch
in its path
every scruple
when we see it
so swollen
with runoff
that even as we watch
we must grab
each other
and step back
we must grab each
other or
get our shoes
soaked we must
grab each other

Thank you for sharing such a beautiful poem, Archer. :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-14-2007 12:24 PM Archer Opteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-15-2007 4:59 AM Jaderis has responded

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 34 of 55 (385327)
02-15-2007 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 12:44 PM


I guess I'm not seeing the challenge or experiment in it. The plain fact is that there is an extraordinarily larger amount of heterosexuals than there are homosexuals. Therefore, most people do assume that the person they are speaking with is heterosexual. The writer seems as if she has just made some sort of sociological break through here. I guess I don't see the point in the experiment.

Yes, there are an "extraordinarily larger amount" of straights than gays. That is why it is fairly easy for many gay people to "pass" and most of their friends and family members (except your grandmothers...they always know :) )will accept their deceptions. This exercise is not a challenge in the sense that it should be hard on others, but that it should be hard on yourself.

The assumption that most anyone you talk to is heterosexual allows many gay people to dance around the subject of their sexuality with no one being the wiser. That does not mean it is easy on the dancer.

The "point of the experiment" is to put on the pointe shoes and see how your toes feel after a day of wearing them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-14-2007 12:44 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 9:59 AM Jaderis has responded

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 35 of 55 (385328)
02-15-2007 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 1:19 PM


Re: The point
I got the memo, but I still don't understand the point. People feel stigmatized for all sorts of reasons. I mean, what exactly does she want? Sympathy because most people are heterosexual? If she was just born homosexual and I was just born heterosexual, and its noboady's fault, what exactly am I supposed to feel sorry about? If that's the way it is, then that's the way it is, right?

No one is "supposed to feel sorry" for us. That's not the point.

"Try walking in my shoes

You'll stumble in my footsteps..."


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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 36 of 55 (385329)
02-15-2007 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
02-14-2007 1:51 PM


Re: Attitudinal responses
Well, that's on her because she doesn't need to hide it. You think I hide my beliefs to the world? My beliefs that homosexuality is unnatural is far less popular now than the belief that gay is okay. I don't see the fear in it. I could understand it twenty or thirty years ago, but not now. Unless she's at a neo-Nazi rally or something. Then I could understand it as being faux pax.

Well, espousing a belief that homosexuality is unnatural is ALOT less likely to get you fired than being gay (which Schraf pointed out is legal in many states). I also do not see many gays or gay rights supporters threatening to kill (or actually killing) or physically harm people who express their anti-gay beliefs.

The most you get by stating your personal beliefs about homosexuals is scorn from "liberals" and possible shunning by people who do not agree with you (maybe the ACLU won't hire you, according to you). I doubt anyone has ever threatened your life or body for saying or believing that homosexuality is immoral.


This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 2147 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 37 of 55 (385330)
02-15-2007 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jaderis
02-15-2007 3:59 AM


Re: Feast Day
All thanks go to Ms Pastan. It's interesting in this context that the poem is gender-inclusive while making no special point of it.

You and me and us. All love comes to that, doesn't it?

Everything else is outside the garden.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 3:59 AM Jaderis has responded

Replies to this message:
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Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 38 of 55 (385331)
02-15-2007 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Archer Opteryx
02-15-2007 4:59 AM


Re: Feast Day
Yes...all love indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-15-2007 4:59 AM Archer Opteryx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 39 of 55 (385362)
02-15-2007 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Jaderis
02-15-2007 4:28 AM


Coming out
Yes, there are an "extraordinarily larger amount" of straights than gays. That is why it is fairly easy for many gay people to "pass" and most of their friends and family members (except your grandmothers...they always know )will accept their deceptions.

Alright. Tell me a little about your own story. Have you come out of the closet, if so, how long did it take you to make that transition? Who in your life was very supportive and who was resistant?

The assumption that most anyone you talk to is heterosexual allows many gay people to dance around the subject of their sexuality with no one being the wiser. That does not mean it is easy on the dancer.

Some people are obviously more easy to spot out than others. Were/are you able to keep a level of anonymity with others?


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Jaderis, posted 02-15-2007 4:28 AM Jaderis has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2007 10:29 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 40 of 55 (385367)
02-15-2007 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
02-15-2007 9:59 AM


Re: Coming out
you keep asking people to discuss this stuff and it has nothing to do with the topic. it doesn't matter if ringo is a man or a lesbian or both. it matters that you refuse to see the purpose in bothering to experience the hardships of another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 9:59 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 41 of 55 (385391)
02-15-2007 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by macaroniandcheese
02-15-2007 10:29 AM


Re: Coming out
you keep asking people to discuss this stuff and it has nothing to do with the topic. it doesn't matter if ringo is a man or a lesbian or both. it matters that you refuse to see the purpose in bothering to experience the hardships of another.

Isn't me asking them what its like to be lesbians me attempting to understand how they feel?


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2007 10:29 AM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:55 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 42 of 55 (385392)
02-15-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Hyroglyphx
02-15-2007 12:51 PM


Re: Coming out
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

Isn't me asking them what its like to be lesbians me attempting to understand how they feel?

Asking, "How does that feel?" isn't the same as walking in somebody else's shoes. Stop being the salesman and try being the customer.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 12:51 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-15-2007 1:28 PM ringo has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 43 of 55 (385400)
02-15-2007 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by ringo
02-15-2007 12:55 PM


Re: Coming out
Asking, "How does that feel?" isn't the same as walking in somebody else's shoes. Stop being the salesman and try being the customer.

Then if I'm going to play this game, why not go all out? Why simply not allude to the sex of my wife when I could just be gay for a day? I could make topics surface that would imply that I'm gay and I could judge their body language and reactions. Sound good to you?

How's that for being the customer?


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 12:55 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-15-2007 1:35 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 44 of 55 (385402)
02-15-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Hyroglyphx
02-15-2007 1:28 PM


Re: Coming out
nemesis_juggernaut writes:

Why simply not allude to the sex of my wife when I could just be gay for a day? I could make topics surface that would imply that I'm gay and I could judge their body language and reactions. Sound good to you?

Sounds good. Go for it.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5123
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 45 of 55 (385447)
02-15-2007 5:40 PM


So you're gay, green, ugly...
I think I’ll sit this one out.

This entire exercise is an appeal for empathy.

I do not care to experience, even for a day, the trials and tribulations of one who is gay, black, quadriplegic, blind, Arab, deaf, pregnant, republican, homeless, white, terminal, stupid, Jew, democrat, atheist, Nazi has dandruff or rickets or fibromyalgia or halitosis or cleft lip or buck teeth is stuck in prison or Wyoming or is green from eating too much broccoli.

I have enough problems being me without taking on the burdens of every affliction, stereotype, disease, handicap, orientation, race and problem known to mankind.

Do any of you realize what it is like to have to go through life in this species being aesthetically challenged?

OK, after re-reading this I can see that through my inane sense of humor my point is not coming through. I'll leave it all there just because it felt good writing it.

We are human. Sometimes we are not as empathetic towards others as those others think we should be. We all have issues of one sort or another. Considering the plight of MOST humans on this planet, each and every one of us on this board is doing very well indeed, thank you very much.

Being gay, black, quadriplegic, blind, Arab, deaf, pregnant, republican, homeless, white, terminal, stupid, Jew, democrat, atheist, Nazi having dandruff or rickets or fibromyalgia or halitosis or cleft lip or buck teeth being stuck in prison or Wyoming or being green from eating too much broccoli is a nit compared to the vast majority of human sufferings.

So you find life is unfair, hard, ridiculous, painful and all too often psychologically brutal and no one seems to be sensitive enough to your petty little problem. Deal with it. And take your self-pity somewhere else. My plate is already full.

Ya…it’s one of those days.


Replies to this message:
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