Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,478 Year: 3,735/9,624 Month: 606/974 Week: 219/276 Day: 59/34 Hour: 2/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Transexuals and Marriage: A Question
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1366 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 106 of 109 (320666)
06-11-2006 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
06-11-2006 10:38 PM


Re: CAIS
If a person appears female (or male), and lives as a heterosexual female (or male) I accept that person as a female (or male) and don't care about any specifics. I thought I was pretty clear about this.
specifics like a penis testicles and a y chromosome? if you allow people with penises (penii? what is the plural, anyways?) testicles and y chromosomes to marry men, well, what's to stop gay marriage?
just appearances?
Edited by arachnophilia, : struck for less specific specifics, as there are variations of ais.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 06-11-2006 10:38 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by ohnhai, posted 06-12-2006 12:59 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 107 of 109 (320680)
06-12-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by arachnophilia
06-11-2006 10:42 PM


Re: CAIS
just appearances?
Apparently so.
It apparently does not matter if you are sterile or fertile, Male, female or neuter. Nor does it matter if you want to marry the opposite sex in any number you choose. Nor even does it matter if you want to marry the same sex.
To ”qualify’ for marriage all that matters, so it seems, is that you can simply pass as one man and one woman (regardless of actual sex,race,gender or fertility). That you can fill the expectant image that is so frequently placed atop the wedding cake is all that is asked.
Faith, is this is really what you feel in regard to the qualifications for marriage, that all that matters is that a couple can, at the very least, visually pass as a man and a woman? And if this image is not filled then deny them the union of marriage?
Your argument it seems, in the end, does boil down to ”You cant get married because you are the wrong shape’ which any way you cut it is distressingly close to ”You cant get married because you are the wrong colour’.
Edited by ohnhai, : fixed a typo ( changed genger to gender)
Edited by ohnhai, : Changed 'Opposite' for 'Same' in the Opening paragraph.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by arachnophilia, posted 06-11-2006 10:42 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 108 of 109 (320707)
06-12-2006 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
06-11-2006 10:38 PM


Re: CAIS
ah you've changed from this position that I replied to?
Faith writes:
Message 35
I've repeatedly said that it's HETEROSEXUALITY that qualifies for marriage, NOT ABILITY TO PROCREATE. Part of the meaning of heterosexuality is the ability to procreate, but if that ability is lost FOR WHATEVER REASON, nevertheless heterosexuality represents that ability in any case as NO OTHER COMBINATION CAN REPRODUCE. I consider this discussion of all the ways heterosexuals might not be able to procreate to be utterly irrelevant.
I was asking how the heterosexuality was determined for CAIS people. It's by how they appear (dress, behavior, external "software" etc)
ok.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 06-11-2006 10:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3798 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 109 of 109 (320939)
06-12-2006 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
06-10-2006 7:31 PM


Re: First Faith, now you, are ironic
Isn't it interesting that I take the time to give you some information that provides evidence supporting my assertion that homosexual marriage exists, and you can just wave it away without even the decency to look into it? Yet, you who continues to assert that homosexual marriage is a perversion of nature and that homosexuals who wish to exercise a fair and reasoned choice to marry will be bringing down the wrath of some god bring nothing to the discussion but your own incredulity. You not only lack the evidence to back your statements but the facts of nature and history. Only by continuing to plug your ears and plucking out your eyes, and giving yourself a full frontal lobotomy can you truly continue to make your assertions.
But in case you decide to exam a few things about biology and cultural history, perhaps you can read on.
First, I'd like to point out that perhaps I was not making a strong enough point; that evidence for homosexual marriages exists throughout history and all over the world. Historic references to "homosexual" marriages can be tough to find (Homosexual as a word didn't exist until after 1869, when it appeared in a German pamphlet for the German minister of justice (1)). References to men marrying men and women marrying men are much easier. It is just that the wording that exists today to describe such unions and much of the stigma didn't exist. In fact it was often seen as important institutions to passing on knowledge to the younger generation (Pederasty). It seems that the idea for young men was that, "Who better to teach the knowledge you'll need in the future than your male lover?"
The fact that homosexual unions and marriages have been seen throughout history is patently evident. The fact that homosexuality is a normal part of cultures worldwide and within nature is evident as well. I can find little statistics on how much homosexuality existed, as in: the percentage of males who were homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual. It is talked about in ancient writings as being normal parts of the social structure. Men pleasured men and women pleasured women. Men performed the duties as the “wife” of the house, married to the “male” man. It was hardly black and white throughout cultures. Regardless of the degree, however, homosexual unions did exist and still do. You can equivocate all you want, but you will never erase history.
...yet you are calling this some kind of big deal throughout history. You don't discuss cultural context, whether it's even about homosexuality -- I can't tell from the quotes you give.
If you actually bothered to read the links I provided, you would see that it IS about homosexual marriages and homosexuality. The cultural context is apparent from the readings which I provided links to. And it is a big deal throughout history, both in the neutral reactions to homosexual marriage and homosexuality and the negative reactions as Christianity spread. It was an important aspect of the social institutions many cultures worldwide, as you would read about in the articles and links I provided you.
As a side note:
It doesn’t matter if it was as little as 5% of any population studied or much, much more. It existed, still exists, and those who have a problem with it in the U.S. need to get over themselves and get a life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 06-10-2006 7:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024