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Author Topic:   Poll; theist, atheist or agnostic
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 295 (340910)
08-17-2006 7:54 PM


It shouldn't be too hard to sort out the different religions if it's kept in mind that the poll is specifically about belief in God or any god for that matter, or lack of such belief or a statement of uncertainty about the existence of a God or gods. Concerning Taoism and Buddhism, I had the impression that God or gods is more of a background notion than the center of the system of thought.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/75/T0147500.html

theism

NOUN: Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.


Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5622
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 227 of 295 (340913)
08-17-2006 8:04 PM


bump
THEIST
1. Nemesis Juggernaut
2. Faith
3. Mjfloresta
4. Catholic Scientist
5. Percy
6. Iano
7. Arachnophilia
8. Buzsaw
9. Phat
10. Jazzns
11. Trixie
12. Tal
13. GDR
14. Anglagard
15. Purpledawn
16. MitchellMckain

AGNOSTIC
1. Creavolution
2. Omnivorous
3. Schrafinator
4. MangyTiger
5. Rail Bird
6. Rick JB
7. Inflixion
8. Tusko
9. Ekman
10. ReverendDG
11. U can call me Cookie
12. Wounded King
13. Fragallrocks
14. Codegate

ATHEIST
1. Robinrohan
2. Ramoss
3. Subbie
4. Annafan
5. Chronos
6. Corpagyps
7. Randy Feagley
8. Crashfrog
9. Mutty6969
10. CK
11. Chiroptera
12. Michael
13. Nighttrain
14. NosyNed
15. Jaderis
16. Parasomnium
17. Quetzal
18. NeuroCycle
19. Mick
20. Minnemouseus
21. Kalimero
22. Sidelined
23. TS
24. Kisimons

NONE OF OUR BUISNESS
1. DrJones

RINGO-- IN A CLASS BY HIMSELF
1. RINGO (there can only be one Ringo to rule them all)

Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add


Replies to this message:
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mitchellmckain
Member (Idle past 4500 days)
Posts: 60
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
Joined: 08-14-2006


Message 228 of 295 (340999)
08-18-2006 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2006 2:09 PM


Re: Theist, Atheist, or Agnostic
Theist.

Christian ... and scientist.

A "minimalist" "anti-Gnostic" born-again Christian existentialist, "orthodox" open theist and theistic evolutionist.

An opinionated intellectual that got religion. LOL

Attend Calvary Chapel of Salt Lake where I participate in worship but otherwise keep my mouth shut.


See my relativistic physics of space flight simimulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com
This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1675 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 229 of 295 (341000)
08-18-2006 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Quetzal
08-17-2006 12:09 PM


Re: Atheists, theists, and agnostics, oh my!
I'm glad Quetzal mentioned Mod. Pantheism defies placement into a single category. As we saw, it could fit all three: Mod suggests two categories and nj suggests a third.

Mod is hardly an isolated case. Philosophical Taoism easily fits all three categories, as I mentioned. There are plenty of pantheists in the world. Lots of panentheists, too, who number among their lot some prominent Jewish and Christian theologians. And Taoism could be thought of as a kind of panentheism.

Buddhism posits an afterlife, but no gods by the definition that Faith posted. Buddhism reveres a pantheon of boddhisatvas--holy ones--who are human beings of particular spiritual accomplishment. They correspond more to saints than to gods. Then you have Zen Buddhism, which adopts a more abstract take on this picture and has much in common with philosophical Taoism. Would Buddhism be theistic because of its spiritual beings or atheistic because they are not really gods? Wherever you go, would Zen also be agnostic because of its reluctance to take images of the divine literally?

I suggest making a new category. What would be the scientific term (cladistics) for a species you can't place right away?


Archer
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1675 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 230 of 295 (341003)
08-18-2006 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by robinrohan
08-17-2006 3:23 PM


Re: Atheist AND theist?
robinrohan writes:

I really like the way you express yourself, even if sounds sometimes rather ambiguous to me.

I only hope it sounds ambiguous in all the places I intend for it to sound ambiguous. But thanks.

There is a place for ambiguity. It's just hard to say where it is.

; )


Archer
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 231 of 295 (341224)
08-18-2006 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2006 1:58 AM


Re: The Poll
quote:
Shouldn`t fundies have a category of their own? After all, they hate everybody outside of their mind-set.

i have a feeling the idea of this has to do with that.

Yes.... Muuhahahahaha. This is Kristalnacht all over again. You're being blacklisted.

no no, that's not what i meant. i think one of the secondary effects of this poll will be to indicate that the fundies are hardly alone in their religious beliefs.

Edited by arachnophilia, : tag


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2193 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 232 of 295 (341229)
08-18-2006 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by arachnophilia
08-18-2006 11:01 PM


Re: The Poll
Theist - Paganistic Diest to be percise.
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2071 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 233 of 295 (341245)
08-19-2006 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Archer Opteryx
08-18-2006 5:28 AM


Re: Atheists, theists, and agnostics, oh my!
What would be the scientific term (cladistics) for a species you can't place right away?

Dunno about scientific, but a common name for some might be TOE Annihilator :-P
This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 234 of 295 (341248)
08-19-2006 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Archer Opteryx
08-18-2006 5:53 AM


Re: Atheist AND theist?
There is a place for ambiguity

Yeah. Art, not philosophy.


This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1675 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 235 of 295 (341256)
08-19-2006 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by robinrohan
08-19-2006 12:31 AM


Re: Atheist AND theist?
I said:
There is a place for ambiguity

robinrohan writes:

Yeah. Art, not philosophy.

Philosophy, too. Both are attempts to represent something true about the universe. And a real universe doesn't always arrive packaged in neat answers, like a catechism... does it?

When one is in the business of describing reality, ambiguity is something one faces. This is true in science as well.

Is yonder Jurassic creature a bird or a dinosaur? Choose one answer! The world is so much neater that way, you know. Like a catechism.

But why misrepresent reality? The truth is, it's both.


Archer
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 55 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 236 of 295 (341309)
08-19-2006 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Archer Opteryx
08-19-2006 1:17 AM


Re: Atheist AND theist?
Is yonder Jurassic creature a bird or a dinosaur? Choose one answer!

"dinosaur," because it's a safe answer. all birds are dinosaurs, so whether or not it's a bird, it's a dinosaur.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1675 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 237 of 295 (341311)
08-19-2006 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2006 1:58 AM


Ladder Unto Heaven
Nighttrain:
Shouldn`t fundies have a category of their own? After all, they hate everybody outside of their mind-set.

arachnophilia:

i have a feeling the idea of this has to do with that.

n_j:

Yes.... Muuhahahahaha. This is Kristalnacht all over again. You're being blacklisted.

Not diabolical, perhaps, but your list arrangement is suggestive. One can interpret it as a kind of Ladder Unto Heaven that corresponds amazingly well with the fundamentalist world view.

Fundamentalists, as you know, view everything in black and white with few shades of grey. Theirs is a world of Saved or Unsaved, Us or Them, Covenant People or Gentiles, Elect or Damned. The only ambiguity allowed in the picture is temporary. It comes in the form of someone who is undecided--the 'honest seeker' who is 'confused'. In other words, the Potential Recruit.

Fundamentalists do not grant that their category 'Saved' corresponds to our category 'Theists', of course. But being a Theist is a prerequisite. The Saved will represent a subset of the set Theists; no one outside that set need apply.

When we look at your Ladder--starting at the top, where the cream rises--we see the upper rungs indeed occupied by Theists. It is they who stand nearest to God, first in line to enter heaven when the gates open. The figure at the top of the list looks almost transfigured, ecstatic, as if already gazing on the celestial joys within.

In the middle of the list, suspended between realms above and below, we find the Agnostics. Their limbo state places them neither above, with the transfigured ones, nor below, with the wretched souls who have already said in their hearts 'There is no god.' But it is assumed (it already has been, in this thread) that no one wants to remain in this limbo state. These are the 'seekers' who will one day make their decision: In The Camp or Out.

At bottom of the list, in the pit farthest removed from heaven, lie the Atheists and the Unclassifiable--cast down, as it were, across the great chasm. Oh, woe, woe!

All in all, the arrangement fits the fundamentalist picture rather well. Everything right where one would expect to find it.

I would have used alphabetical order, myself.


Archer
This message is a reply to:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2071 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 238 of 295 (341318)
08-19-2006 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Archer Opteryx
08-19-2006 6:01 AM


Re: Ladder Unto Heaven
Hey, Bowman, I can handle----Untouchable :D
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Phat
Member
Posts: 12168
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 239 of 295 (341338)
08-19-2006 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Hyroglyphx
08-17-2006 8:04 PM


The symbolic ladder to Heaven
Nemesis Juggernaut, you do have some critics (message#237) that have a valid point.

Methinks the purpose of the list(s) was to get a clear idea of how many EvC posters fit each category, rather than any inferences that EvC is one giant Lost and Found!

It is human nature to categorize people, and as long as it is not done in any sort of prejudicial manner, I see no harm in it.

I think that we are all agnostics in a way, though---in that we do not know anything beyond our internal belief and choice within our hearts and minds.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-17-2006 8:04 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

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iano
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 240 of 295 (341344)
08-19-2006 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Phat
08-19-2006 10:50 AM


Re: The symbolic ladder to Heaven
I think that we are all agnostics in a way, though---in that we do not know anything beyond our internal belief and choice within our hearts and minds.

Which is to say nothing at all. If our own knowing means one cannot know then adding the knowledge of others (consensus) who cannot know either is simply the sum of no one knowing anything. 1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 1

Edited by iano, : No reason given.


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