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Author Topic:   Cartoons and common sense
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 4091 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 241 of 259 (285812)
02-11-2006 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Evopeach
02-10-2006 5:37 PM


Re: The real threat may be at hand
quote:
My real worry is that in pursuit of worldominance they will technically figure out how to get the bird flu in a people to people form or any other super virus.

Starting in Middle East, eh?
That would mean there could be a real "Bird Flu Over the Cuckoo's Nest"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Evopeach, posted 02-10-2006 5:37 PM Evopeach has not yet responded

  
Evopeach
Member (Idle past 4778 days)
Posts: 224
From: Stroud, OK USA
Joined: 08-03-2005


Message 242 of 259 (285815)
02-11-2006 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Silent H
02-11-2006 5:29 AM


Re: The real threat may be at hand
No its modeled after the conspiracy of the fortune 500 trained rats in black helicopters taking over the pizza industry.

Beam him up Scotty.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Silent H, posted 02-11-2006 5:29 AM Silent H has not yet responded

    
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 3998 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 243 of 259 (286422)
02-14-2006 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Silent H
02-10-2006 5:10 AM


Re: cartoons and common sense... for real
One is not supposed to ridicule religious dogma or disseminate insults to people because of their religion. That kind of law is in a number of European nations. That the case was dropped by Denmark seems a bit biased treatment.

Interesting... However, it seems to me that ANYTHING could be considered to be ridiculing a religion.... which is probably why laws like this are a bad idea. I mean there could be religions that believe the world is flat, up is down or just about anything.

I'm assuming there are some sorts of limits on the law..... although it seems like a dumb idea to even have it to me


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Silent H, posted 02-10-2006 5:10 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 3984 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 244 of 259 (286625)
02-14-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
02-14-2006 10:44 AM


Re: cartoons and common sense... for real
I'm assuming there are some sorts of limits on the law.....

Sure but ridiculing a religion by targeting its leader through visual imagery which itself is considered tantamount to blasphemy is nowhere close to making fun of flat earth theory, which some religious people might hold. Its not like Islam is a small and obscure religion.

Honestly, there is no difference between the cartoons in this case and the kinds of imagery antijewish media created in nazi germany regarding jews. The intent was to mock a religion and the people belonging to it.

although it seems like a dumb idea to even have it to me

Despite what I just said above, I agree with this sentiment. I don't like such laws, just discussing what they mean for those nations which do have them, if they are going to be consistent.


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 02-14-2006 10:44 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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tsig
Member (Idle past 1073 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 245 of 259 (286803)
02-15-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Silent H
02-14-2006 5:43 PM


the rule
Honestly, there is no difference between the cartoons in this case and the kinds of imagery antijewish media created in nazi germany regarding jews. The intent was to mock a religion and the people belonging to it.

You automatically lose by invoking the nazis.

Try http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Silent H, posted 02-14-2006 5:43 PM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 9:47 AM tsig has responded
 Message 247 by Chiroptera, posted 02-15-2006 9:53 AM tsig has responded

    
Silent H
Member (Idle past 3984 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 246 of 259 (286823)
02-15-2006 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by tsig
02-15-2006 8:16 AM


Re: the rule
You automatically lose by invoking the nazis.

??? There's no such thing as that rule. It is a lame device used by people who would rather poke fun at others rather than discuss an issue. It is true that comparisons to nazis may be hyperbolic and characterize a desperate attempt to make an emotional appeal, but that does not exclude any and all references/comparisons to what nazis did.

In this case it is apt and not part of some desperate emotional appeal, or guilt by association. There is a direct relationship between these two sets of imagery. The intent is to mock and deride a religious group based on stereotypes. For jews it was the ethnic features and unusual (mysterious) habits as well as financial practices not acceptable to many. For muslims it is ethnic features and unusual (mysterious) habits as well as military practices not acceptable to many.

Look I'm not against the publication of these cartoons, I am simply pointing out that they would offend many people and were intended to offend, or amuse those that enjoy mocking people based on ignorant stereotyping.

This message has been edited by holmes, 02-15-2006 03:47 PM


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by tsig, posted 02-15-2006 8:16 AM tsig has responded

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6619
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 247 of 259 (286826)
02-15-2006 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by tsig
02-15-2006 8:16 AM


Re: the rule
jihadwatch is basically the Answers in Genesis of the Mid-East political debate.

The page to which you have linked starts off with an article about a German cartoon that apparently depicts the Iranian soccer team as suicide bombers. That articles starts off with the quote:

The country that has a "Lovers of Martyrdom Garrison" and numerous volunteers for suicide missions demands that Germany apologize for noticing.

While I do find the quote rather humorous myself, it certainly isn't serious scholarship or even journalism. Right off the bat, the site makes it clear that its intention is to goad xenophobic racism rather than explore that issues in a factual manner.


"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by tsig, posted 02-15-2006 8:16 AM tsig has responded

Replies to this message:
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tsig
Member (Idle past 1073 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 248 of 259 (287205)
02-16-2006 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Chiroptera
02-15-2006 9:53 AM


Islam a race?
jihadwatch is basically the Answers in Genesis of the Mid-East political debate.

Could you provide me with the links that prove anything said on those sites are wrong?

Right off the bat, the site makes it clear that its intention is to goad xenophobic racism rather than explore that issues in a factual manner.

When did Islam become a race? Thought it was a religion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Chiroptera, posted 02-15-2006 9:53 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Chiroptera, posted 02-16-2006 1:47 PM tsig has responded

    
tsig
Member (Idle past 1073 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 249 of 259 (287206)
02-16-2006 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Silent H
02-15-2006 9:47 AM


Re: no sterotype
Look I'm not against the publication of these cartoons, I am simply pointing out that they would offend many people and were intended to offend, or amuse those that enjoy mocking people based on ignorant stereotyping.

What ignorant stereotype do you see?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 9:47 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 8:25 AM tsig has responded

    
Silent H
Member (Idle past 3984 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 250 of 259 (287226)
02-16-2006 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by tsig
02-16-2006 7:06 AM


Re: no sterotype
What ignorant stereotype do you see?

That jews are hooknosed, ratlike hermits who spend their time screwing people over for money and obscure religious fanaticism.


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by tsig, posted 02-16-2006 7:06 AM tsig has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by tsig, posted 02-17-2006 4:06 AM Silent H has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6619
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 251 of 259 (287342)
02-16-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by tsig
02-16-2006 6:58 AM


quote:
Could you provide me with the links that prove anything said on those sites are wrong?

No; if you are sufficiently interested in studying the issues then you can do the research yourself.

If there is a specific issue that interests you that is not relevant to this thread (about the cartoons published in the Danish newspaper), then you can start a new thread, and then people (perhaps myself included) would be more than happy to supply information relevant to that issue and links or citations to the sources of that information.


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tsig
Member (Idle past 1073 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 252 of 259 (287515)
02-17-2006 4:06 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Silent H
02-16-2006 8:25 AM


cartoons
That jews are hooknosed, ratlike hermits who spend their time screwing people over for money and obscure religious fanaticism.

Quess we were not looking at the same cartoons.

Or is your point that you are just opposed to these kind of cartoons?

If that's the case then why don't oppose the Islamic press that is full of just such caricatures.

In Turkey the top rated movie portrays American soldiers as cold-blooded killers who the sell the bodies to a Jewish doctor for organ harvest.

Outraged?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 8:25 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:32 AM tsig has not yet responded

    
tsig
Member (Idle past 1073 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 253 of 259 (287516)
02-17-2006 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Chiroptera
02-16-2006 1:47 PM


research
No; if you are sufficiently interested in studying the issues then you can do the research yourself.

I've done the research( Qu'ran, Hadiths, joined Islamic forums), just wanted to see if you had.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Chiroptera, posted 02-16-2006 1:47 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

    
Silent H
Member (Idle past 3984 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 254 of 259 (287522)
02-17-2006 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by tsig
02-17-2006 4:06 AM


Re: cartoons
Quess we were not looking at the same cartoons.

I compared two different sets, you didn't suggest which one I was supposed to describe. If you want the other set it is that muslims are hooknosed hermits who spend their time killing people for virgins and obscure religious fanaticism.

Or is your point that you are just opposed to these kind of cartoons?

No I'm not opposed to them, I am simply pointing out what they are and why its no surprise that it would be offensive to some and illegal according to legal systems that ban speech which is deragatory of religions. Personally I don't like speech based on ignorant racial stereotyping, but I am not opposed to its creation or publication.

If that's the case then why don't oppose the Islamic press that is full of just such caricatures.

Someone is full of something. How do you know what the Islamic press is full of? In any case, I was aware that such defamatory speech does exist in SOME of the Islamic media and I find it equally personally undesirable. Who said I didn't?

In Turkey the top rated movie portrays American soldiers as cold-blooded killers who the sell the bodies to a Jewish doctor for organ harvest.

Hey ts, cardboard arab terrorists have been one of the more consistent "bad guys" in US movies for over a decade. Did you know that in the 90s the Japanese made a Gojira (Godzilla) movie with US soldiers as bad guys? How about the Chinese with movies like Once Upon a Time in China? I guess that gets us back for our stereotyping them.

You know what really cracked me up? Those dumbass Iranians just renamed "danish" pastries to something about flowers of allah or something like that, in order to protest denmark's involvement with these cartoons, despite the fact that such pastries are only danish in name and actually not from denmark. I mean how stupid do you have to be to do something like that?

This message has been edited by holmes, 02-17-2006 11:33 AM


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by tsig, posted 02-17-2006 4:06 AM tsig has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by NosyNed, posted 02-17-2006 11:12 AM Silent H has responded
 Message 256 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-17-2006 11:25 AM Silent H has responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8842
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 255 of 259 (287622)
02-17-2006 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Silent H
02-17-2006 5:32 AM


How stupid indeed....
I mean how stupid do you have to be to do something like that?

Somehow, holmes, knowing you a bit, I'm sure you are refering to something else here as well. I was about to spoil it by making it explict but I'll leave it for now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:32 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
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