Return Capital Punishment - ReCaP

Once you are able to resurrect someone you've exectuted, I will be more willing to consider the death penalty as a viable option.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Hello AdminNosy,If you would re-examine the message you might realize it contains a core issue to the debate about capital punishment. I'm sorry if you are not smart enough to see the link, but is that good reason to deny those who are???

Nope I don't see it; just which paragraph is it in? Perhaps if you didn't wander all over but focussed it would be easier to see.ABEAh a second go: it is in the last paragraph. About one sentence and you take a half dozen paragraphs of chit chat to say little?Edited by AdminNosy, : Corrected earlier comment

Content deletedEdited by iano, : Seeing the wood for the trees..

I replied to you before seeing this Malachi. We can all take a bit of abuse from those with whom we have formed some kind of relationship with. Those who have demonstrated that they are prepared to work at putting a reasoned case together here and there. Your struggling a bit at the moment in my opinion too - and are unlikely to hold your "I am like God and so can put people to death too" argument. At least not without resorting to insult to bolster what is a questionable scattergun-approach to people who taking the time in attempting to engage with you. No harm in that per se - where it skillfully executed (which it wasn't).But no warrant for this either...I'll extract myself from this discussion thanks.

Iano, the above message was addressed to AdminNosy and was not intended for you. If you please, I would like to respond to the question you put to me regarding 'innocent' according to the Bible. As I'm sure you know, there are many references to innocent. But I think Exodus 23:7 expresses my understanding.I consider those who have not yet been corrupted by society to be innocent. They are the children and the youth who have not as yet had their natural purity defiled by the world.What I wish to say is that all citizens in free societies have personal responsibility to protect those innocents from the evil that has gained such dominance. Part of our responsibility is to ensure that we have priests , holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens (Hebrews 7:26). If those potential priests are newly born children, then we should do more to protect their innocence so that they might lead the rest of us sinners back to a semblance of grace. Not an easy task, but it was not easy for us to digress to where we are now.This may sound idealistic and unrealistic. So be it. What else can we hope for when we give more rights to murderers and rapists of children than we do to the innocent children in our care? Why, I ask anyone who will listen, do we give more compassion to the guilty than to the innocent? Why do we, as voters, allow corrupt officials to misuse and abuse just laws to convict and duly punish the evil in our midst?

Jar was expressing a very old, and quite humanist philosophy (sorry jar). One of the better expressions of this is found in JRR Tolkein's Lord of the Rings (believe it or not):Frodo: (referring to Golum) He deserves death.Gandalf: Deserves death? I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And many that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Be not so quick to mete out death in judgement...

Ok, here is what is really happening in the USA.Most of the inmates in prison are non-violent drug offenders. They are put in prisons which are run extremely irresponsibly and basically strip them of all their rights. Then they are raped/beaten/etc. by other inmates. Once these non-violent offenders get out they have become hardened violent criminals who are much more likely to commit violent crimes.1. The drug war is just stupid and is probably most dismal failure amoung domestic programs in modern history (imagine if we spent that money providing people health care). It has done nothing but fill prisons and CREATE violent crime. (I'm not arguing about the morality of drug use or whatever, simply stating the facts about the results of the drug war.)2. The prison system is not about rehabilitation, as it should be. In fact, prisons more often make people into WORSE criminals than before they entered. Again, I don't care whether you are into revenge, punishment or whatever or not. The fact is that it benefits society to rehabilitate people (when possible) into tax paying citizens instead of having them remain criminals and drain the public coffers.3. Capital Punishment is useless from a practical and non-moral point of view. It has never been shown to have any effect whatsoever when it comes to deterring crime. In addition, capital punishment costs tax payers far more money than simple life imprisonment.

Thank you for explaining. But that, as you know, is beyond our capability. I presume from your comment that you do not believe in life after death. Nor, I presume, do you believe in a loving God. If that is the case, please tell me what life on this planet is worth if hardened criminals are kept alive to suffer til death in prisons that enforce cruelty and inhuman treatment?I know someone who spent five years in prison and is convinced that there were inmates who were like vicious animals and should never be allowed to rejoin society. Does it make you and others feel better that they are kept alive? Do you believe they can be rehabilitated? Would you like to have a go at rehabilatating them? Have you some personal acqaintance with people who denounced their humanity? Would you leave them alone with your wife and children?

I'm sorry but I don't respond to absolute drivel.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

He might be a pain in the arse at times but I consider the man worthy of respect. And you didn't pay him any in the least. I wouldn't mind the Admin bit - I have a problem with authority myself. But behind the ...Nosy bit sits a person. And if his views are to be dismissed then the right to dismiss must at least attempted to be earned.60 posts in falls below my own threshold. Its an arbitary thing. Sorry.

Fine. But for the record, I quote what Nosy wrote: He suggested he was not smart enough to see a connection to the topic (which was no doubt said with tongue firmly in cheek). I was not being disrespectful, rather did I respond to his remark about himself.

I don't think that those that break the law, even those who commit the most serious of crimes, should lose the right to be treated as human beings.Half of all prisoners are assessed at having a reading level at or below that of an eleven year old; two thirds have numeric ability at or below that of an eleven year old; four fifths of prisoners have the writing ability at or below that of an eleven year old. These skills are required for 96% of all jobs.(1) Would it be fair to say that many people imprisoned for serious crimes - crimes that can undoubtably leave victims and their families terribly damaged - have nonetheless been failed repeatedly, not just by the criminal justice system, but by schools and perhaps family also, since practically the time of their birth?Maybe you're right, and we should start killing people to free up prison space - but couldn't it be argued equally that it is a failure of the justice system to rehabilitate those who break the law that is what's really costing the nation?(1) see the report "Reducing Re-offending by Ex-Prisoners", 2002. Its on google scholar but you have to read the HTML version.

Yes. It's far easier to dismiss searching questions as drivel rather than objectively examine oneself.

Your comments are well received. There does seem to be considerable confusion in many minds as to what constitutes a human being. If there is no standard, other than physical appearances, to make such judgements then one might justly conclude that we are on the slippery slope to self annihilation or else, hopefully, a wide ranging reappraisal of personal and social responsibility will arise from the ashes.I personally get very concerned at the general degradation of the quality of human standards at every level. Killing people in prison is not an answer, of course. One might discover there are more dangerous people who have never been charged with crimes.I do not believe individuals can change the world, but I firmly believe we can all make changes within ourselves to improve our lives and the lives of those whom we love.Thank you for the reference. I'll look at it. You may be interested in reading Jessica Mitford,s book 'Kind and Unusual Punishment: The Prison Business. It was written in 1973 about US prisons, but it is likely that few improvements have been made in the interim.