Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Lying For Jesus Award
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 194 of 279 (381997)
02-02-2007 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
02-02-2007 6:05 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first
You might be right but I fear that their first target will be folk like myself.
This may not be a comforting thought, but if history is any guide, including the history of this forum, you are very likely to be correct in this observation.
What fundamentalists consider 'heretics' seem to always be considered a greater threat than any external religion. Look at all those witchburnings and the Catholic vs Protestant warfare that took place while the Ottomans besieged Vienna.
I guess people like myself who adhere to the numerically smaller 'outsider' beliefs will be second. Larger competing religions will be third, then Athiests, Catholics, other Protestants, then finally each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 02-02-2007 6:05 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Buzsaw, posted 02-02-2007 8:39 PM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 214 of 279 (382059)
02-03-2007 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Hyroglyphx
02-03-2007 12:05 AM


Re: My Two Cents
NJ writes:
The fundamental difference is that Hwang was empirically and demonstrably shown to have manipulated the evidence, whereas Coulter and Falwell are giving their opinions on their beliefs. What exactly did they "lie" about? If you can't point out a specific lie, then you are only essentially giving us your rhetorical opinion of those you distaste, which makes your indictment unsubstantiated.
"I think Mohammed was a terrorist. He - I read enough of the history of his life written by both Muslims and - and - non-Muslims, that he was a - a violent man, a man of war. And I do believe that - Jesus set the example for love, as did Moses. And I think that Mohammed set an opposite example."
--Jerry Falwell, 60 Minutes, October 6, 2002
"I have never said in a sermon or a speech that Muhammad is a terrorist."
--Jerry Falwell, interview with Religion News Service
How's that for a start. More to come.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2007 12:05 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-03-2007 12:08 PM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 215 of 279 (382064)
02-03-2007 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Buzsaw
02-02-2007 10:56 PM


Fun Facts About Robertson
Wikipedia has something interesting in its article about Pat Robertson:
quote:
Robertson repeatedly supported former President of Liberia Charles Taylor in various episodes of his 700 Club program during the United States' involvement in the Liberian Civil War in June and July of 2003. Robertson accuses the U.S. State Department of giving President Bush bad advice in supporting Taylor's ouster as president, and of trying "as hard as they can to destabilize Liberia."[21]
Robertson was criticized for failing to mention in his broadcasts his $8,000,000 (USD) investment in a Liberian gold mine.[22] Taylor had been indicted by the United Nations for war crimes at the time of Robertson's support.
Prosecutors also said that Taylor had harbored members of Al Qaeda responsible for the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. According to Robertson, the Liberian gold mine Freedom Gold was intended to help pay for humanitarian and evangelical efforts in Liberia, when in fact the company was allowed to fail leaving many debts both in Liberia and in the international mining service sector. Regarding this controversy, Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptist Convention's public policy said, "I would say that Pat Robertson is way out on his own, in a leaking life raft, on this one."[23]
I remember seeing all those pictures with children carrying machine guns, provided of course they still had hands and arms. Amazing that a Southern Baptist would mildly criticize Robertson for profiting from the misery of others, but that is just another example of that fundie morality in action.
Actually such behavior is no surprise, consider this:
quote:
The Associated Press
12/30/01
WASHINGTON - The Christian Coa1ition has settled a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by black employees. The suit claimed that the workers were denied health benefits and overtime pay, had to enter the organization's Washington headquarters by the back door and were forced to eat in a segregated area.
Guess the line between being treated as sub-human and non-human is somewhat fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Buzsaw, posted 02-02-2007 10:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Quetzal, posted 02-03-2007 11:00 AM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 234 of 279 (382182)
02-03-2007 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Buzsaw
02-02-2007 8:39 PM


Re: Who the Fundies will come after first -- NOBODY!
Buzsaw writes:
Some of you people are soooo deluded! When are you going to get it in your thick heads what true Biblical fundies teach, believe and do? We do, teach, think and believe what Jesus and the apostles did, taught, thought and believed, that you do violence to no man, even to the point that you suffer for your testinony, your faith and your Lord Jesus Christ.
It's too bad that there are not more Biblical fundies that speak and act accordingly. Instead, what is often the case is that the spokesmen for fundamentalism preach that they must control all aspects of life in whatever nation they would 'conquor' for their religious cult.
quote:
"Modern U.S. Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the founders had in mind in the First Amendment of the Constitution... [W]e must fight against those radical minorities who are trying to remove God from our textbooks, Christ from our nation. We must never allow our children to forget that this is a Christian nation. We must take back what is rightfully ours."
--Jerry Falwell, March 1993 sermon
What if this attempt to "take back what is rightfully ours" is resisted?
quote:
"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."
--D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries describing the role of Christians
When such representatives of fundamentalism spout off in support of theocratic dictatorship, how come all other fundies are silent? Is it because they also want to see democracy destroyed? Is it because they fear an equal competition in the marketplace of ideas?
What is so ridiculous about this whole exercise is that if the fundies were actually to seize power and recreate their paradise known as the Dark Ages, the resulting destruction of education, then the economy, then the military, and then the nation would be inevitable. It is as if the most vocal Biblical fundamentalists are a sort of fifth column for Islamic fundamentalists or Chinese communists. After all, the pronouncements from each are virtually identical save a few buzzwords.
Should these fundies ever actually gain power why would the actions be any different than their stated goals? Or are we supposed to assume they are all liars for Jesus?
Edited by anglagard, : spelin' and clar'ty
Edited by anglagard, : more spelin'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Buzsaw, posted 02-02-2007 8:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 254 of 279 (382359)
02-04-2007 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Buzsaw
02-04-2007 11:14 AM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
Buzsaw writes:
I said there are issues with Falwell which I have. You seem to be missing and fail to refute my point that nothing you or Jar have come up with constitute violence or lying on the part of Falwell.
I already pointed out im message 214 of this thread where Falwell lied. Here are some more from http://www.tylwythteg.com/enemies/Falwell/falwell3.html
quote:
August 1980: After Southern Baptist Convention President Bailey Smith tells a Dallas
Religious Right gathering that “God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew,” Falwell gives a similar view. “I do not believe,” he told reporters, “that God answers the prayer of any unredeemed Gentile or Jew.” After a meeting with an American Jewish Committee rabbi, he changed course, telling an interviewer on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that “God hears the
prayers of all persons . .God hears everything.”
quote:
July 1984: Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle. During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches “brute beasts” and “a vile and Satanic system” that will “one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven.” When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.
There are yet more examples. How many do you require before you will admit that Falwell has lied in the past?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Buzsaw, posted 02-04-2007 11:14 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 02-08-2007 11:23 PM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 279 of 279 (384014)
02-09-2007 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Buzsaw
02-08-2007 11:23 PM


Re: Falwell Lies For Jesus?
Buzsaw writes:
If you superscrutinize everything any given person says who talks on TV as much as a pastor and chancelor of a large church and university you could likely dig up plenty of irregularities. It appears that Falwell should be more careful to either keep commitments he voiced or refrain from voicing them knowing so many are out to defame him.
I think we have an obvious difference in opinion concerning those who presume to speak for God. To me, any such person who enjoys wealth and power enough to have their mug all over the TV should be held to a higher standard of morality than the average person. On the other hand, you appear to believe that such people should be held to a lower standard of behavior than we would demand of the average person.
The argument that anyone who says what you want to hear should be given a free pass to break any commandment is a major factor in driving people away from Christianity. Is this your purpose in defending, or at least minimizing, the actions of such liars, thieves, adulterers, and blastphemers? I should certianly hope not.
If you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, why don't you just outright condemn such behavior as the Bible does? Even Jesus drove the moneychangers from the Temple, or do you think that was just a myth?
Why are you seeming to blame Falwell's critics for Fallwell's lies? Maybe if Fallwell didn't lie as much, he would have less critics. You may want to ponder that idea for awhile.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Buzsaw, posted 02-08-2007 11:23 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024