Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

That is the REALLY important message to learn from him and his life.

And if you think that then you are in the same terrible danger that Speer was trying to warn against. There is not magic shield against it; it is still there. Just those who most believe they are the ones who have slain the beast are those that we must most fear.Jar has been trying to warn against this; you demonstrate why the danger is as great as ever. It is up to you. It is up to you alone to be on guard. I repeat "alone"; using whatever means you think will work, perhaps, but it is not a responsibility you get to pass to others (be they human or otherwise).

Ned, hopefully this is somewhat still on topic.One of the things that really comes across in Speer's book is the popularity of Hitler in the 30s in Germany. People always think of hitler as this evil monster, but he was at one time seen as one of the most popular and successful leaders in the world. Hitler may have assumed power by nefarious means, but he was not viewed as some terrible dictator by the german people until things turned in WW2. He was a very popular guy viewed in a positve light.

That's just it RR, you're making my point for me.Yes, if he goes against the rules he agreed to follow then he would be solely responsible for his actions, as an individual.But what if the army sanctioned his actions? What if they expected it from him, and encouraged it? What then? Would the army still not be responsible for the consequences of such?You see, many atrocities, were commited in the name of Christianity, and were sanctioned by the Church.
And, one cannot use the excuse that the Church is not Christianity, because, in a sense, it is.For it is the Church who primarily brings Christianity to the people, and shapes their view of it.Christianity is not some abstract entity. Christianity is the people that it is composed of. For without the people, there would be no Christianity.

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

Then the whole thing just doesn't make any sense.There are rules that Christians are supposed to follow, like the ten commandments. So there is no such thing as a Christian or a Scotsman. Well you pretty much summed up my arguement there.
Thank you and have a good night.

Prove it.Are you saying I had something to do with Hitler killing millions of Jews, just because I choose to try and follow Jesus?That is what you are trying to imply, so I say BS jar.Are you also saying that Christianity is to blame for my response to you?

I disagree. Christianity is what Jesus laid down for us, a set of rules to live by, and a Holy Spirit to follow. If there were no people, then there would be no Christians. The rules of Christianity would still exist. The example Jesus did for us would still exist.
The denominations would not exist.There is no such thing as Scotsmanianity. If there were no people, then there would be no Scotsman, and thats the difference.If people wanted to blame the particular denomination that Hitler was a part of, and all those that allowed him to do what he did, I would not have a problem, and I think the NTS would apply. But to somehow associate it with what Jesus was trying to teach is not logical, clearly.

That's wrong crash. There were people in Germany opposed to Hitler's view.

The sins of the father are not visited on the son. You are not responsible for what Hitler did, but Christianity certainly shares in the blame.And you most certainly are responsible for the continued oppression being done by Christians today.A basic tenet of Christianity is that you must be honest about your failings as well as your successes.To simply say that those incidents were "Not True Christians" is a total complete cop-out.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I couldn't agree more. I always say we are one tick away from becoming a nut case. No one could possibly understand what set of circumstances could drive you to that point, and how easily it could happen.But this has nothing to do with the rules of Christianity. There are no rules for being a human. You are a human, or you are not.Christianity is not as simple as that, as we have learned from the threads about it, including this one.If Jesus was the only true Christian, then Hitler certainly was not Jesus.

Easy, RiverRat! Why are you so feisty this morning?

If I am responsible for that, then I am responsible for what Hitler did.
Thanks bud.

he was a nice Jewish boy.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What did I say?Crash just tried to blame all of Germany for Hitlers doings, tell him he's wrong. Isn't our society above that kind of thinking?

From a Christian standpoint, individually, can we say that all humans are Christians? Can we say that all Christians are Christ like?