Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

The NTSF is the most abused fallacy IMHO. In many cases a logical disjunction means that the fallacy isn't actually in use, dependent upon the claimant's definition. (Therefore equivocation is guaranteed).In a haste to claim the fallacy, people that it's quite easy to not be something. All fallacy-files, if searched, will tell you that you can infact claim that somebody is not truly something, if the predicate contradicts the specific definition. I know because I've read them all. (I've gave an example of this below, with the vegetarian link.)No true Scotsman - Wikipedia So you see, it is quite possible to not truly be something.

Good job, Mike. I'll have to POTM later as I'm rushing.

Excellent !

Thanks for the thought,... I'm just glad somebody read the post.

Thanks.I'm sure everybody's posts are good ones in this thread, including yours and Shraff's.

And thus, due to enlightened thoughts from LogicalMike, I conclude that the idea of a True Christian stands. I know, because I am often not a true Christian myself. We can forgive the majority of "Christian" Catholics who did not participate in the Crusades....for them, it was much like many Americans who are not "fighting" in Iraq yet who wish to "support our troops!"Back then, however, there was no CNN or FOX to give the latest updates---so people can be excused for not knowing what the politically and dogmatically minded armies of the church were doing.However....while we can say that no TRUE Christian would have gone to war, can we say that for them? A patriot is a patriot---and it is between them and God what they willfully do. Perhaps a zealot idolizes the church, a patriot idolizes the country, and a YEC idolizes a false ideology and agenda....but the main thing is if any of them are honestly consciously unaware of their idolatry and if they bow to Jesus Christ in their minds.No True Christian would ever make their mind and ideology more important than Christ!BTW Good POTM, Mike!

---

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

You are correct to point out why the fallacy exists. In this regard, Shraff is very much correct to argue against the use of it amongst Christians, as we don't own the definition. But this isn't the only variable.You can AND cannot claim there aren't true Christians, logically. It's hard to communicate this on a forum, and even language is insufficient and useless, because it doesn't voice my abstract thought processes.I am merely asking that every creature observes the fallacy, without special circumstances or exceptions.If we are not able to claim that somebody is not a true Christian period, then inference is incapacitated. (i.e. You can never conclude somebody isn't a Christian once he has claimed it).To make this point clear; You could never state that an atheist was not a true Christian, even if he insists he's an atheist.Pedantically amusing perhaps, but possible because of logic, nevertheless. once the person would have claimed he is something, he is bound to the term indefinitely. How amusing. It's like me saying, "I am a footballer".If I can never infer that I am NOT a true footballer, then I can never not be a footballer ever again. Therefore I can never, under this logic, ever, ever, not be a footballer.Ask NWR or Perhaps Omnivorous, to explain if I am incoherent. Lol.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 03-07-2006 11:36 AM

So can I claim I am black?

In what context?I can claim that I am invisible. Now you see me...( )

---

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

Doesn't matter. I can't see you.

Ever hear of the one-drop rule, RR?Can you be sure that there is no African ancestry somewhere in your family's history?And well, technically, we're all descended from the peoples of Africa anyway, so we're all "Black".

---

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

This seems like a bizarre question to ask on a discussion board. Of course you can!! You can claim to be whatever you like, you can claim to be a small dog waving a spade if you like.Once again whether you are 'truly' black depends upon having specific criteria for determining 'true blackness'.TTFN,WK

I know very well about my black mother Eve, thank you very much

No true rib is black.

It is in the right kind of light, or the lack there-of.