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Author Topic:   Where is the Good Non American Music???
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 172 (381889)
02-02-2007 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by joshua221
02-02-2007 10:52 AM


Re: just wondering
I acknowledge that Shakespeare was a very effective playwright. But being about to "strike a deep chord of empathy with audiences across several centuries" has nothing to do with what I am referring to here.
Then for the love of crimney, please explain what you are referring to here. You said it was truth, and an examined life. But apparently, expressing universally appreciable truths about the human life, more effectively than anyone, ever, does not qualify.
What separates Harper Lee from Jean Paul Sartre?
A black poloneck and a crapload of cigarettes.
But seriously, is there a reason you're shifting the focus onto apples v. oranges now? Why don't we ask what separates tapioca pudding from beekeeping?
Fortunately, we can agree on one thing... Hemingway sucked.
This is exactly the kind of truth I am referring to. What is discussed in these famous English writers novels and short stories has NOTHING to do with truth.
Even if what they say happens to be true!
And incidentally, Lee, Fitzgerald, and Hemingway were all American.
I guess Plato was right when he talked about those who would work and those who would become Philosopher Kings.
Tell me, who would you say truly grasps the eternal and unchangeable... the author who writes about human emotions that are still relatable after centuries, or the musician who whines about people watching TV?

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 10:52 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 3:18 PM Dan Carroll has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 122 of 172 (381928)
02-02-2007 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Dan Carroll
02-02-2007 11:10 AM


I enjoyed reading Hemingway, For Whom the Bell Tolls was amazing. Old man and the sea was amazing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-02-2007 11:10 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-02-2007 3:51 PM joshua221 has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 172 (381936)
02-02-2007 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by joshua221
02-02-2007 3:18 PM


You should probably stop admonishing people to read more carefully, if all you took from that post was "Hemingway sucks."
However, if that's where you're touching down, I'll go ahead and provide the same post for you again, in Hemingwayspeak.
quote:
I want him to explain. He says "truth". I ask him. Shakespeare wrote. He wrote plays. He wrote beauty. He wrote beautiful plays.
He compares things differently. They're not related. I tell him.
He says truth isn't truth. But truth is truth.
The author held up, and the musician didn't like TV.

"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 3:18 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by kuresu, posted 02-02-2007 5:57 PM Dan Carroll has not replied
 Message 125 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 7:54 PM Dan Carroll has not replied
 Message 127 by joshua221, posted 02-03-2007 5:11 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2601 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 124 of 172 (381967)
02-02-2007 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dan Carroll
02-02-2007 3:51 PM


if he doesn't get it, next try stream of concsiousness.
I always liked Farewell to Arms.
but then, I have a tendency to like books the rest of my lit. class hated (or disliked).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-02-2007 3:51 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 172 (381998)
02-02-2007 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dan Carroll
02-02-2007 3:51 PM


Sorry I felt like the topic was dead.
It is, but I think that the main objective was shown.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-02-2007 3:51 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by DrJones*, posted 02-02-2007 8:14 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 132 by nyenye, posted 02-03-2007 6:18 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2293
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 126 of 172 (382002)
02-02-2007 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by joshua221
02-02-2007 7:54 PM


It is, but I think that the main objective was shown.
I think the only thing that was shown is that you have a classic case of teenage knowitallitis, the condition should clear up in 10-15 years.

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 7:54 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by joshua221, posted 02-03-2007 5:14 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 172 (382178)
02-03-2007 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dan Carroll
02-02-2007 3:51 PM


I had, at the start, typed up a response with each sentence provided for but I felt like my argument and objective had been shown to be true. I also felt that it would be tarnished with further discussion in the way a new song is after listening to it many times.
I feel that if someone reads this thread they will understand what I am talking about and agree. That is all that matters really.
I guess what I mean to say is that everyone will realize that the beatles and shakespeare weren't anything special and should be smiled at.
Peace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-02-2007 3:51 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by cavediver, posted 02-03-2007 6:17 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 172 (382179)
02-03-2007 5:13 PM


This is what Daniel Johnston had to say about the Beatles. I know what he means but I know that Daniel Johnston was much more.
When I was born in '61
They already had a hit
They worked so hard and they
Made it too
They really were very good
They deserved all their success
They earned it yes they did they didn't
Buy their respect
And everybody wanted to be like them
Everybody wanted to be the Beatles
And I really wanted to be like him
But he died
A legendary rock group
Like history now to read
Like a magical fairy tale that's hard to believe
But it really did happen
Four lads who shook the world
God bless them for what they done
God bless them for what they done
-Daniel Johnston

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 172 (382180)
02-03-2007 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by DrJones*
02-02-2007 8:14 PM


What do you know?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by DrJones*, posted 02-02-2007 8:14 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by CK, posted 02-03-2007 5:35 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4215 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 130 of 172 (382181)
02-03-2007 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by joshua221
02-03-2007 5:14 PM


That your pattern of interaction shows that all of your threads are low on coherent or novel content from you but generally have some interesting points from others that provide something worth following?
That you perform a useful function because we all have a good giggle over our coffee and remember when we were that young and sheltered?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by joshua221, posted 02-03-2007 5:14 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 131 of 172 (382190)
02-03-2007 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by joshua221
02-03-2007 5:11 PM


I feel that if someone reads this thread they will understand what I am talking about and agree. That is all that matters really.
I guess what I mean to say is that everyone will realize that the beatles and shakespeare weren't anything special and should be smiled at.
No, they will read this and think that some immature twit wrote it...
And when someone tells them that this kid thinks he's a musician and can say such things about the Beatles they will laugh long and hard...
It doesn't matter whether you love or hate the Beatles - once you realise why the Beatles were/are special, you will have learned something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by joshua221, posted 02-03-2007 5:11 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 172 (382191)
02-03-2007 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by joshua221
02-02-2007 7:54 PM


You pissed off a lot of my friends, they are all music junkies... If you wanted a debate about it, they will give ya you're money worth!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by joshua221, posted 02-02-2007 7:54 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 172 (382451)
02-04-2007 7:19 PM


It should also be said that Nas is a true artist.

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 134 of 172 (382485)
02-04-2007 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by joshua221
01-31-2007 3:45 PM


Re: just wondering
Why is it impossible to be a "true artist" if you also "live life for fun"?
quote:
Because intelligent human beings don't "live for fun",
Says who?
You?
"Fun" does not have to equal "frivolous", you know.
According to you, all of your favorite artists were either severely mentally ill or died of drug overdoses or suicide.
quote:
people who change the world don't "live for fun".
Bullshit.
quote:
Those who live fruitful lives are tortured in pursuit of truth, knowledge...
More bullshit.
You really are a remarkable cliche of a teenager, you know.
quote:
"An unexamined life is not worth living" -Plato
Who said anything about an unexamined life?
Clearly, you are convinced that "life is pain" or some dreck like that.
quote:
Life isn't about fun, those guys were average joes.
So, you love playing your instrument and you have a blast making music, but you don't have any fun when you do it.
Got it.
You are the typical miserable middle class teenager, I get it already. You're really deep and sensitive and you are the only one who really understands pain. Gotcha.
quote:
This is the difference between Elliott Smith and The Beatles and Johnston and The Beatles. This separates Soren Kierkegaard from the rest of them...
So, what did Johnston believe about the Beatles, do you think, based upon what he wrote in his song about them?
Why would Eliott Smith cover Beatles songs so many times if he didn't think their stuff was trivial and meaningless?
quote:
The sooner you realize what is the most worthwhile way to live, you will understand what is so special about Kierkegaard and Plato. Elliot Smith and Johnston.
Right.
You are the arbiter of all music and philosophy, just like every other teenager in the world.
Right there with you.
(Of course, Smith and Johnston are both mentally ill.)
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by joshua221, posted 01-31-2007 3:45 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by joshua221, posted 02-05-2007 1:46 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2258 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 135 of 172 (382490)
02-04-2007 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by joshua221
01-31-2007 5:14 PM


Re: just wondering
quote:
They were just normal people who did not understand many things about life, whereas Smith and Johnston were far different.
Do you really think that drug abusers and mentally ill people "understand life" better than everyone else?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by joshua221, posted 01-31-2007 5:14 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by joshua221, posted 02-05-2007 1:48 PM nator has replied

  
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