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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3075 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Declaration of Arbroath | |||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
jar, rather than merely repeat your claims, why don't you provide some evidence of them?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
It's disgraceful the lack of substance and intelligence showed by the evos posting here in somewhat absurd responses to you. JUst want that stated for the record....
Interesting topic...it appears that maybe some Scots did claim to be one of the lost tribes of Israel. If you have some more evidence/links, I would be interested in it. The Celts are a very interesting group of people. Of course, the Scots also intermarried with others so it's not like they would all purely be descendants of Israel. Georgians, if that's what you call them, speak a language, I believe, most related to the Basques, and there are different connections that spread to Spain and other areas from the Caucuses, but I have never studied it much.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
snippet from it
The Gaelic alphabet as well as the ordinal numbers show more commonality than could be expected after 2,700 years of divergence; for example we have a Hebrew “S” retained in the modern Gaelic - the Hebrew Sheen, pronounced Sh is found in the Irish “S” as in the name Sean pronounced Shawn. Other letters are similar, the ordinal numbers 6 & 7 are pronounced almost the same as Hebrew and Gaelic. Words with same or similar meanings abound; for instance the Hebrew word for holy in common usage according to Halacha (Jewish law) is Kasher. The word in Manx Gaelic for hallowed or holy is Casherick. The syntax of Gaelic is entirely different from any other European language, especially English. R.L. Thompson, in his work Outline of Manx Literature and Language says that “in several respects Gaelic syntax has similarities with that of languages like Hebrew and Arabic”. As in Hebrew, adjectives follow the noun that they describe: for example “ben vie” = “a good woman” in Gaelic and “Rosh ketan” = “small head” or “stupid” in Hebrew. (Vie or ketan being the adjectives) The word order also is similar in Hebrew in that the verb is usually first in the sentence unlike English or many other European languages. These are just a very few of the many commonalities that I believe suggest a definite connection between the two languages and their family streams. This alone could constitute a major comparative study. .... After the invasion of the Romans into the Isles, white cattle were introduced and later used; until that time red was the preferred colour. One of the most famous wars in Irish history was over a Red Bull stolen by a northern Irish tribe. Also, swine were not raised in any of the early Celtic areas until after they were introduced by the Romans; the Celts had a taboo against them along with scaleless fish as eels and shellfish. The Celts, in similitude to the Israelites, were excellent herdsmen and developed identifiable breeds of sheep, cattle and horses, that carried on the traditions of the Israelites. OTHER PROOFS Perhaps one of the most telling of the commonalities is simply the self-identification as Israelites the Hibernians - the name of the Irish and the Scots and the Hebrides Islands off the coast of Scotland. The Milesians, one of the early Celtic peoples to come to Ireland from Spain had a tradition that they were of the Lost Tribes. The name Heber, Eber, or H’berian is found throughout early literature to describe the Celts as they described themselves to be “Of Eber” ” the grandfather of Abraham. What I have presented here in greatly abbreviated form just skims the surface of the commonalities between the Celtic Peoples and the Israelites. There is a tremendous amount of information available for those who would like to look at this closer themselves. A few resources are listed at the end. This is one of those subjects in which at first one can say “oh, that’s an interesting coincidence”. But the sheer mass of these “coincidences” that build up after one goes from one discipline to another becomes totally overwhelming. The fact that so much of the languages are similar almost three thousand years later, that customs are clearly identifiable as being related, that religious practices are uniquely similar and that the everyday agricultural practices and crops were similar ” all along with the many other commonalities bespeak a common origin. For those interested in pursuing this I wish you well and much enjoyment.
Page not found | The Ensign Message This message has been edited by randman, 02-10-2006 01:44 AM
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
From a quick reading, I think ray is probably correct that the reference to Israel in context is meant to indicate they feel that is their origin, and the posts put forth denying that have contained no additional evidence. Moreover, it's not a secret that some Celts did indeed believe to descend from Israel. The attitude of the evos here has been unnecessarily rude and oddly no real evidence offered other than to bash ray, for seeming no reason.
Rereading the declaration, I will admit that it is not a clear and definite claim to have descended from Israel, but at the same time, the context in referring to their origins can be read to embrace Israelite origins. I think other evidence is needed, and that the proper response would be to look for more evidence, as I have done, and it seems to be there. But why do evos make even an innocuous discussion like this something of such rancor? The evos here are a weird, insular group of people. This message has been edited by randman, 02-10-2006 02:24 AM
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Rev, the article actually supplies facts from someone that grew up both Irish and Jewish. You are making unsupported claims. For example:
they never called themselves of eber or heber, it is what the romans and greeks called them, Link? Evidence? And the rest of your comments are less credible.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Could be a time-mark, sure. One of the more interesting aspects of studying Celtic origins that I found reading tonight is that they are genetically related to the Basques, which I guessed before reading that since the Basques linquistically seem a little related to the Georgians in the Caucus mountains.
However, the Celtic languages though are not connected to the Basque language, whatever it is called. It's interesting though that they would trace their origins back to the Scythians and Caucus region and that the Basques, the Celts, and the Caucus are connected. Personally, I can believe that some of the tribes of Israel perhaps did become Celts, but I would also think there would intermarry along the way, and become something different. The whole Christian Identity thing just seems off the map to me. I don't think speculating about Celtic roots should be considered somehow advancing white supremacy or anything like that, and I don't think you imply that, but just want to be clear on that. This message has been edited by randman, 02-10-2006 03:02 AM
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I know, but we shouldn't let a topic be tainted just because some wackos want to use it to harm people. Celtic and other people's roots are of interest all on their own.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
But you know, oddly, there is a lot violence in those "stan" countries...
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
jar, he is correct about the separation of Israel. The kingdom was split. It's not clear what happened to the lost tribes of Israel, but they were removed from Palestine and so it's not unlikely that they would have changed over time and even adopt many ways, customs, etc,...of the places they were sent to.
The Samarians would this be called Jews too by your definitions here, but Jesus says salvation is of the Jews and not Samaritans.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I know that, but after that, it's not 100% clear. I think the Celtic concept has merit though.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
here's another good article from the same source you quoted jar....though not dealing with this subject.
Dook - Wikipedia I use the wika too, but have you got another source. Sometimes moreover, there can be different people groups called by the same name, Ibernians for example.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
That's not much of a link. You have something that shows the reasons for why such and such claim is made?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Uh, you are making specific claims about the Scythians, right? So shouldn't you back them up?
The links you provided thus far are not very detailed.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
jar, you running from your claims now? The OP mentions the SCythians and you argued based on who the SCythians were, and are now backtracking.
Why?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Interesting stuff. I sort of wonder why people in the Caucuses and in Spain were both called Ibernians, but maybe the Hebrew angle is the answer.
Then again, the standard explanations dismiss Ibernian as referencing Hebrews. got some more links and data?
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