On this day, let us all be proud of America

Hi Buz,

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What makes you so sure that many of the Gitmo prisoners are innocent victims? Amnesty International? If so, where is the documentation?

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You are missing the point. They are innocent until proven guilty. It's also a little difficult to know what people are guilty or not guilty of, before they are charged with something. What are they accused of? Being evil?They should be given trials. To do otherwise is to squander the moral high ground.

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Imo, the military knows better who's innocent and who's not.

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Better than who? Better than judges and juries? how far are you willing to push this principle? Should all criminals be handed over to the military? Can we do away with jury trials?If not, why should some people get trials and others not.

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What would be the military's motivation for rounding up innocents?

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They seem to have employed a scatter-shot approach, taking anyone who had any suspicion attached to them. This, combined with a system of financial rewards for those providing info that led to arrests, has led to a lot of people being rounded up and shipped off to Gitmo, only to be freed without charge. It has happened already. They have effectively admitted to making mistakes.The question you should be asking is what did the Bush administration have to lose from admitting that Gitmo was a wash out? They could only lose by admitting their mistake. They had little choice but to stick to their guns.Obama's moves to shut down Gitmo, have been widely welcomed abroad, not simply by Muslim nations, but by many (if not most) of America's allies. There is a reason for that. The Guantanamo Gulag has been a PR disaster for the Western democracies as a whole and it has inspired more terrorism than it has stopped. Good riddance.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Aaargh!

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The question is, why are you, along with our new president, more concerned about the welfare of America's ruthless and lawless arch enemies, who will commit suicide to destroy America, than you are of the welfare and safety of American citizens, American homes, American institutions and America's cities?

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Yet again buz, the question is how do you know that these people are your enemies? How do you know that they are willing to blow themselves up? Simply because they are at Guantanamo? They haven't even been charged with anything for the most part, so how do you claim to know that are all suicide bombers?No-one on this thread is against protecting America and that goes for those of us who are not American too. We are concerned that indiscriminately rounding people up and keeping them incommunicado, without charge, without legal representation and without the opportunity to clear their names hinders the "War in Terror" more than it helps.Just out of interest; I'm a foreign national. Would you be content for me to be arrested, dragged to God-knows-where and held without charge?Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Hi kuresu,

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He wouldn't, because you're British (or at least, currently living in the UK).

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Unfortunately though, there are probably quite a few would-be bombers in the UK. I wonder if Buz would be in favour of.. er.. extraordinarily rendering them.

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I agree that the US health-care system is a disgrace. Every time I hear about its numerous failings I am saddened, then angry. It's simply beyond my comprehension. I owe my life to the National Health Service, at least twice over, so I am puzzled as to why anyone would be against a system that provides health care for all, free at the point of use. I'm also puzzled as to why Americans don't kick up more of a fuss about this.I don't have an enormous amount of faith in Obama's promises of reform. He is not going to go far enough, and however modest his ambitions, he is going to have to fight the health insurance lobby all the way.Still, it is encouraging to see this problem being addressed, instead of being swept under the carpet yet again.

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

Oh Buz,

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1. No enemy nation on earth has been treated their prisoners as civilly as America treats our prisoners and that includes the terrorist slippery stealth fanatics who we are dealing with in the current unique War on Terror.

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I take exception to that. Here in the UK we charge those we suspect of criminal acts. They get legal representation. We then put them on trial. They get full access to the system of jurisprudence that everyone gets in the UK, as part of their universal human rights.Even outside of Gitmo, the US prison system does not compare favourably with other Western nations, especially when it comes to civility. Putting someone with the mental age of a child on Death Row is very far from civil.Mutate and Survive

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"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade