On the verge of a break-through

That would make a great thread IMHO, but getting way OT here. There is a vast body of material in te Eastern religions on the duty of the individual that is present but often ignored or hidden in the Western religions, particularly Christianity. Perhaps when you feel up to it you could start a thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Just some good reasoning. An opinion cannot be forced on anyone except by physical force. In this case it may happen if some sort of law is passed. We "accept" these instances because we accept majority rule.
You are not forcing anything. You are simply being honest. Never appologise for being honest.

riVeRraT writes me:

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I never said it wasn't real, so I don't know where that came from. It seems you are a bit on the defensive, just because I don't understand it.

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You're right, I think I overreacted a little. You've come even further than I realized the first time I read your OP. You've actually done a lot to restore my faith in humans, rat. It's not so much the change in your attitude toward gays as it is your willingness to question your own deeply held beliefs. Too few liberals and conservatives are able to do that.You're still making a few mischaracterizations about us but others are calling you on them so I'll leave you to debate them rather than me, at least this time round. Take care, my friend.

riverrat writes

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Let me ask you. Do you have any desire to make a child in this life?

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For every child you want to produce, there are a million more waiting for you to adopt. Perhaps you'd like to consider adopting rather than using your "god-given" ability to pump out children?

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There is way too many needy children in this world, and they come first. I wouldn't want to hinder any chances a needy child might have.

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Yes, so perhaps you'd like to adopt at least one of them?

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If he is living in sin, then he is just like the rest of us. I am sure the church would not recognize that second marriage either.

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Which church are you referring to?

2ice writes

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An opinion cannot be forced on anyone except by physical force.

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People (especially women) who have been in abusive relationships would disagree with you.

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We "accept" these instances because we accept majority rule.

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I'm a bit curious about you. Would you consider a law to suppose to represent the majority rule or protect minority rights?

I was wondering, mike, if you might look in on my questions regarding women in church, their clothing, etc., on this thread.Thanks in advance for your reply.

You've dodged the question. Yes, me and my wife talk about it, but for now I am vice president of Hope for the Nations U.S.
Hope for the NationsTrying to help the children. Many but not all.

riVeRraT writes:

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Yes, me and my wife talk about it, but for now I am vice president of Hope for the Nations U.S.
Hope for the Nations

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Trying to help the children.

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I glanced around that site. Sounds like a wonderful organization. I particularly like the focus statement: (emphasis mine)From that and other information on the site I gather that you're a much better person than what I think of when I hear the phrase "conservative Christian". If there's anything at all a just God would stand for it would have to be these sorts of rights for children. The work you do must be very rewarding.

riverrat writes

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You've dodged the question.

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To answer your question, no I have never considered having children. I'm ugly, unintelligent, short-tempered, etc. In other words, I carry a lot of bad traits. The last thing this world needs is another one of me around.

I don't recall the scriptures but perhaps they were addressed to the immediate apostles?I don't remember anything said about women's judgement being inferior to men's.I know what you're doing, young woman. You're trying to say I have a double standard. That I disregard some biblical musings etc....I don't go to church but if I did, there might be found the best way, to observe the rules. It might be that there is an inexplicable reason for why things work best under certain guidelines.For example, men might be right-thumber, and so therefore can preach a better wisdom, or something like that. In mike-church the women can only wear bikinis, and they can only use tongues.(pun intended)But it's what God says that counts, not what mike says.But what do you say? How would you say I was going wrong as a believer concerning this issue?

Thanks. Just to clear some things up though, is I am not conservative. I fall almost exactly in the middle of every test there is to find out what you are.I haven't had the chance to work with the kids hands on yet, but the time is coming. Right now it has been a monetary endevour, and time on staff getting the US version of this great charity up and running. I am amazed at what it takes to get one going. You would think that helping children should be easier.We went down to New Orleans to help out, and I think on the next trip, I will be going. I will post a message in here inviting all EVC members if they want to tag a long, and we can help our fellow country men together, regardless of beliefs.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and your not unintelligent, and temper can always be fixed. I have a temper also, doesn't make you a bad guy.

riverrat writes

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

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Actually, studies have repeatedly shown that beauty is in fact not in the eye of the beholder.

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and your not unintelligent

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Never use a double negative, my teachers used to say.

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and temper can always be fixed

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Not really. Your temper depends mostly on your upbringing. Just like your brainwave patterns, it can never be changed except after some kind of a dramatic experience, like dying.

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I have a temper also, doesn't make you a bad guy.

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Yes, it does! This is why I am part of the POTCP.But back to subject, my previous post was only in good humor.The real answer is once upon a time I wanted to have children of my own. It was also the time when I thought that people of other races were inferior to me, that women should stay home to cook and make babies, that the holocaust didn't happen and if it did the Jews deserved it, and that gays should all be shot.But after Apollo spoke to me and Zeus struck me with his lightning rod, I realized that my future resources could be better spent on the kids that really need help and not to create more kids. The urge to have your flesh and blood as your children is primal, one that any moral person with a free will ought to be able to overcome.

Well thanks for that subjective post. I am going to have to disagree. I can say with authority, that the God I believe in has changed my temper, in a big way. I have many witnesses who will agree.

riverrat writes

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I am going to have to disagree. I can say with authority, that the God I believe in has changed my temper, in a big way. I have many witnesses who will agree.

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I am sitting here having fun thinking up of scenarios of what your witnesses would say..."A big guy with long white beard appeared, waved his magic wand, and poof riverrat no longer yelled at us.""One day, as riverrat was losing his temper over a lost penny, a nearby bush started to burn and WOW riverrat got over his lost penny!""Riverrat was smashing my stuff because I told him I was gay and that I had a slight attraction to him, but then a dove flew into my house and riverrat started apologizing for having damaged my possessions.""Up until last summer, my husband was beating me almost every night for not loving him enough. I always knew that it was my fault. I just needed to love him more. But one night last summer, he came home from work and started asking me how my day was. He then proceeded to tell me how his day went. As I was getting ready for my well deserved beating, my husband told me that he loved me and wanted to make love to me. The lord had finally gave me enough love to give to my husband. Praise be to God in the highest!"But in all seriousness, I said that I believe that your temper doesn't change. What I suspect happened with your case is you developed more self-control. The temper is still there, but you have found a way to cage it.