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Author Topic:   Discrimination against homosexuals carried into the 21st century
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 286 of 313 (379271)
01-23-2007 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Taz
01-23-2007 4:21 PM


Just opinions, that's all
Everything said so far on this thread and others about "gay marriage" are OPINIONS. Nothing else. In a democracy opinion rules if it gains a majority vote. So take a public vote on same-sex "narriage" and see what you get. What could be more democratic than that? But DON'T tell me that a minority opinion has special rights just because it's an opinion. These things are basic, folks. Why are they so difficult for perfectly intelligent people to grasp?

—Hoot


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 288 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-23-2007 5:09 PM Fosdick has responded
 Message 289 by jar, posted 01-23-2007 5:21 PM Fosdick has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17444
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 287 of 313 (379272)
01-23-2007 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 4:58 PM


Re: Just opinions, that's all
Hoot Mon writes:

But DON'T tell me that a minority opinion has special rights just because it's an opinion.

Nobody is telling you that.

What we're trying to tell you is that minority people have the same rights, regardless of the majority opinion.

Majority opinion can not vote away basic human rights.

Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?


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This message is a reply to:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 288 of 313 (379275)
01-23-2007 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 4:58 PM


Re: Just opinions, that's all
Everything said so far on this thread and others about "gay marriage" are OPINIONS. Nothing else.

Except for the part where I quoted you the relevant law that guarantees equal treatment for all citizens, and cited legal precedents so you could see how that law applies to this exact situation.

Then, of course, there was that part where Taz posted links to medical studies that pissed on your opinions about choice.

But yes... if you go ahead and ignore all that, I suppose you could call what's left "opinion."

Except for the business about you being exactly like a bigoted version of Ralph Wiggum. That's just objective fact.

So take a public vote on same-sex "narriage" and see what you get.

Cool. But since we have to treat all citizens equally, when do you want to schedule the vote on your "marriage?"

Thursday's good for me.

Edited by Dan Carroll, : Grammar costs nothing


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 4:58 PM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 5:24 PM Dan Carroll has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31518
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 289 of 313 (379277)
01-23-2007 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 4:58 PM


Re: Just opinions, that's all
Everything said so far on this thread and others about "gay marriage" are OPINIONS. Nothing else. In a democracy opinion rules if it gains a majority vote. So take a public vote on same-sex "narriage" and see what you get. What could be more democratic than that? But DON'T tell me that a minority opinion has special rights just because it's an opinion. These things are basic, folks. Why are they so difficult for perfectly intelligent people to grasp?

Denying inheritance rights is an opinion?

Denying someone the right to donate blood is an opinion?

Denying someone access to health care is an opinion?

Denying someone access to equal protection under the law is an opinion?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 4:58 PM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 8:15 PM jar has responded

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 290 of 313 (379279)
01-23-2007 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Dan Carroll
01-23-2007 5:09 PM


Re: Just opinions, that's all
I wonder why not a single court of law has upheld the rights of gays to get "married." Could it be that they are bigots, too, and go home at night and beat their slaves? Or could it be that the law just does not provide for same-sex "marriages"?

—Hoot Mon


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-23-2007 5:09 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Chiroptera, posted 01-23-2007 6:41 PM Fosdick has responded
 Message 292 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-23-2007 7:02 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6805
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 291 of 313 (379307)
01-23-2007 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 5:24 PM


Good question.
I dunno. Why didn't the courts begin to protect the rights of black people until the 1950s, even though the main purpose of the 14th amendment (ratified in the 1860s) was explicitly to protect those rights? I bet the answers are similar.


But government...is not simply the way we express ourselves collectively but also often the only way we preserve our freedom from private power and its incursions. -- Bill Moyers (quoting John Schwarz)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 5:24 PM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 313 (379311)
01-23-2007 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 5:24 PM


Re: Just opinions, that's all
I wonder why not a single court of law has upheld the rights of gays to get "married."

If you ignore all those courts in Massachusetts, then yeah... I guess not a single court has ever done so.

Either way, Chiroptera covered it, Ralph. "We've been fucking this minority over for ages" is not a reason to keep doing so.


"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut."
-Stephen Colbert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 5:24 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 293 of 313 (379313)
01-23-2007 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Chiroptera
01-23-2007 6:41 PM


Re: Good question.
Chiroptera wrote:

Why didn't the courts begin to protect the rights of black people until the 1950s, even though the main purpose of the 14th amendment (ratified in the 1860s) was explicitly to protect those rights? I bet the answers are similar.


Obviously they're not. Why haven't all the states approved same-sex-marriage rights under their laws? Where is the support for it in the U.S. Congress. Why haven't all the liberal Democrats come out in force for same-sex marriage? Maybe it's not a question of "civil rights" at all. There must be some reason other than bigotry that prevents the gays from marrying each other. It doesn't seem to me like the majority of OPINIONS expreessed here are very popular on the American stage.

Ringo, a question: Does Canuckistan provide for same-sex marriages under its laws?

—Hoot Mon


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Chiroptera, posted 01-23-2007 6:41 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by docpotato, posted 01-23-2007 7:24 PM Fosdick has responded
 Message 296 by DrJones*, posted 01-23-2007 7:32 PM Fosdick has not yet responded
 Message 297 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 7:32 PM Fosdick has not yet responded
 Message 303 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-23-2007 8:16 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 3337 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 294 of 313 (379314)
01-23-2007 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 7:18 PM


Re: Good question.
There must be some reason other than bigotry that prevents the gays from marrying each other.

Why? It seems to me that bigotry could be powerful enough. Did you have something else in mind?

It doesn't seem to me like the majority of OPINIONS expreessed here are very popular on the American stage.

For the record: This is noted. It has been refuted. Please stop pointing at the bigotry of the majority as if it somehow excuses your own.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:18 PM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:30 PM docpotato has responded

  
Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 295 of 313 (379317)
01-23-2007 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by docpotato
01-23-2007 7:24 PM


Re: Good question.
So the United states is a nation of bigots?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by docpotato, posted 01-23-2007 7:24 PM docpotato has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 299 by docpotato, posted 01-23-2007 7:48 PM Fosdick has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1958
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 296 of 313 (379318)
01-23-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 7:18 PM


Re: Good question.
Does Canuckistan provide for same-sex marriages under its laws?

Yes it does.


Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:18 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17444
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 297 of 313 (379319)
01-23-2007 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 7:18 PM


Re: Good question.
Hoot Mon writes:

Ringo, a question: Does Canuckistan provide for same-sex marriages under its laws?

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer.

We abolished slavery before you guys too. :P


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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:18 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31518
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 298 of 313 (379321)
01-23-2007 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 7:30 PM


Bigots?
So the United states is a nation of bigots?

I'm not sure that calling the US a nation of bigots is that far wrong. The whole nation is not bigoted but a significant portion of the US population is bigoted, racist and very, very ignorant, particularly a large portion of Christianity.

Also, is there some reason you are avoiding responding to Message 289?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:30 PM Fosdick has not yet responded

docpotato
Member (Idle past 3337 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 299 of 313 (379329)
01-23-2007 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Fosdick
01-23-2007 7:30 PM


Re: Good question.
I think it's undoubtable that the United States has bigots within its population. Which makes it a nation at least partially comprised of bigots. Do you disagree with this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Fosdick, posted 01-23-2007 7:30 PM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 300 of 313 (379333)
01-23-2007 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by docpotato
01-23-2007 7:48 PM


Re: Good question.
doc wrote:

I think it's undoubtable that the United States has bigots within its population. Which makes it a nation at least partially comprised of bigots. Do you disagree with this?


Jesus Scooter Christ, no!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by docpotato, posted 01-23-2007 7:48 PM docpotato has not yet responded

  
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