The New Neo-Nazi's

I disagree.

.....I would be interested if you could back up your original assertions with something like evidence. The onus is on the originator to provide the evidence if called on it. You made the original assertion so explain how you can justify that assertion.You claim only to be talking about a small group of "professors" - who are they? What did they say? Can you provide specific in context examples to back your assertions? If its only a small group, why do you say I note that you say THE highly educated, not SOME OF THE or A SMALL MINORITY OF. By implication you are talking about ALL of them. Its up to you to provide the evidence for your sweeping statement, something that you haven't even tried to do so far. Since I know that your statement isn't true, I'm interested to hear what evidence you base your assertion on. Since the only way to prove that you are correct in making the above statement is to define what highly educated professor means, then give us the views of ALL people who fit into this category, I think you may have a problem.Bear in mind that even a single "highly educated professor" who is sympathetic to the Israeli Government policy disproves your statement.(Edited to fix a problem with the quote code)[This message has been edited by Trixie, 04-29-2004]

Dan Carroll quote:
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If you were to raise specific cases of these university justifications/whitewashing, and show how their logic is fallacious, and then show how it parallels Nazi behavior, it would go a long way towards that goal.
______________________________________________________________________Are you saying that you are unaware of university professors justifying Palestinian suicide bombings ?IF you are then I would ask rhetorically "What planet have you been living on in the last couple years ?"If you are indeed aware of university professor rationales, then you are asking for some link substance in order to argue that their statements are justified, but in this case the fact that the rationales exist is not an issue.If you are saying the rationales do not exist unless evidenced, then, if I do show they exist, then I have been debating a person that is extremely naieve to current events.Fact: Israel has vehement worldwide opposition. The conflict has extremists on both sides. The extremists against Israel include university professors. These professors justify suicide bombings.How is any of this a stretch ?To continue: Nazi's were very educated and they justified the murder of Jews and they murdered Jews.Logical Link: We have two groups of ultra-educated persons (Nazi's/certain university professors)Common Denominator: Both groups justified/justify the murder of Jews.These university professors in no way see themselves as Nazi's, yet, if a Nazi is well educated and justifies the murder of Jews (and they are) THEN this definition perfectly fits these university professors.

You have been asked to site specific examples. Please do so.Though I may agree they exist you need some evidence when asked for it.Addtionally your initial assertion should be modified if you no longer want to support it.[This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 04-29-2004]

I never said "small group" or "large group" or "all university professors". IF I did then show me where.Trixie quote:
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I note that you say THE highly educated, not SOME OF THE or A SMALL MINORITY OF. By implication you are talking about ALL of them.
______________________________________________________________________I respectfully accuse you of not paying attention to what I am arguing. (this is better than me accusing you of deliberate misrepresentation)When I said/say "highly educated" it was always in the context of CERTAIN university professors, meaning the ones I am speaking about, meaning the ones who justify Palestinian suicide bombings.There can be no implication that I am talking about all of them, because I have laboriously specified that I am referring to the ones who justify the suicide bombings/terror.Why or how could I include ALL, that would be ridiculous, you have obviously grossly misunderstood.Trixie quote:
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define what highly educated professor means
______________________________________________________________________Any person who has attained educational credentials that earn him/her the right to be called professor.I then assume anyone who is in fact a professor is in fact highly educated.

This Admin intrusion has taken Dan off the hook.Maybe Dan will be a sport and answer post 93 anyway.In any case:Anti- Israel Professors :: Reader comments at Daniel PipesSpeaking from the radical end of campus :: Reader comments at Daniel PipesWhich side really wears the mask of Nazism? :: Reader comments at Daniel Pipeshttp://archives.econ.utah.edu/...a-list/2002w38/msg00169.htm— - ’ http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0502/wisse1.asphttp://www.jewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=2727Note: These links are submitted in the context of post number 93.

First of all, Willowtree, you and I have to have a serious talk about what "specific example" means. Links to other people making the same vague accusation you are is utterly meaningless.Names. Times. Specific actions. These are an important part of a specific example.The only actual example in any of those links is the boycott letter. Mind you, you do not present the text of the letter, or fulfill the second half of my request, which was to show how the reasoning behind the anti-Israel arguments is fallacious.Secondly, you continue to make the mistake of equating the Jewish people with the government of Israel. As a person of Jewish heritage, I find this extraordinarily insulting. It suggests that the actions of a small number of Jews reflects on all Jews everywhere. It dehumanizes Jews, and I would like you to stop.Thirdly, you mistake causality. Decrying the actions of the Israeli government is not the same as excusing the murder of Jews, and you have yet to show how that would be the case. If a Jewish person were to be killed in an alley-way, in a case totally unrelated to the Israeli/Palestinian war, do you think for a second that any of these unnamed university professors would excuse the murder on the grounds that the victim was Jewish? Because every time you accuse this mysterious cabal of professors of excusing the murder of Jews in a Naziesque fashion, that is exactly what you are doing.You ask me in post 93 if I'm aware of professors who argue against Israel, and for Palestine. And yes, I'm aware that all sorts of people make this argument. But if you argue against it, you first have to tell us what argument you're arguing against. You cannot simply state that there are professors who excuse the murder of Jews, because the only example I've seen (the only one you've raised, in fact) is professors decrying that actions of the Israeli government. This is not enough because, as stated above, Jews cannot be automatically equated with the Israeli goverment.So once again... specific examples. Be sure that these examples include a decrying of, or justification for the murder of, Jews. Do not equate Jews with the Israeli government when referring to your example, because under those guidelines you might as well attempt to compare apples and fruits.Then, show how the specific examples are parallel to Nazi behavior. This should be exceptionally difficult since, as has been pointed out to you before, the Nazis personally killed Jews, rather than simply excusing their murder. If these are your grounds for comparison, the college professors would more readily be comparable to the Catholic Church.I look forward to your response.

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

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You are suddenly challenging the existence of that which you have already assumed (university elites who make excuses for killing Jews)

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I have done neither. The goalposts shift so fast with you that I cannot attempt to address every point from the same exact angle in every post. I offered arguments that did not depend on the existence or prevalence of anti-semitic views and thus may have appeared to accept your impression of how common they are. More recently I may have pointed out that you had no evidence to show that anti-semitism is more common among the educated. I have no trouble believing there are anti-semitic professors in the world, and pointed out that probably quite a few support the Palestinian cause without necessarily being anti-Jewish. These arguments in no way contradict each other, and the manner in which you have answered them suggests you have no substantive defense against either.

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You have conceded the debate. You act like I and what I say is fresh out from outer space.

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For all the effect it has on the issue at hand, it may as well be the case. I have not conceded because nothing I've posted has been challenged with relevant evidence.

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You are clowning the debate. I see no need to respond to you any further unless your strategy of insulting my intelligence ceases.

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The debate is a joke already, and it has been from the OP. You offer conflicting explanations of what you're trying to prove, you avoid answering major points made against your ideas, and when all else fails you retreat to a non-controversial point (education is not a 100% cure-all for morality) that no debate remains. I am not questioning your intelligence. I am, for good reason, questioning your knowlege and your willingness to debate in good faith.

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I disagree.

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HAHAHAHA!!!! If only it were so simple.Personally, I would like to solve every argument with this line:"I know you disagree, but I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I realized that, well, I have it all figured out... and, you see, the thing is, you're wrong."I am continually surprised by the rarity of favorable responses.

Here are some more links.Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David HorowitzProfessors Sign Petition on Israel :: Campus Watchhttp:Campus Watch: Professors Agitate Against Middle East Peace :: Campus WatchInside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David HorowitzWorld History Textbooks Biased Against Israel | History News NetworkOutrage of the Day :: Campus WatchColumbia Embraces Another Anti-Israel Professor :: Campus Watch[This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 04-29-2004]

Hey,I somewhat arbitrarily clicked on your second link there. Incidentally, you're violating forum guidelines.Oh, but I had a point. Yeah. Here is some text from the beginning of that article:Twenty-six Harvard professors and lecturers are among the over 1,100 American academics who have signed a petition warning the Israeli government against the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian minority and calling for "vigilance" by the U.S. government to prevent it.

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The petition decries the "transfer solution," under consideration by parts of the Israeli leadership, which involves forcibly removing Palestinians from Israel and the Occupied Territories. How dare those ivory-tower hippies sign a petition against ethnic cleansing! They may as well be herding Jews into gas chambers!....except that the two have nothing to do with each other.Honestly, you should stick to posting links that actually support your case. Then, when you post them here, have the decency to actually discuss their content.

Dan Carroll quote:
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Secondly, you continue to make the mistake of equating the Jewish people with the government of Israel. As a person of Jewish heritage, I find this extraordinarily insulting. It suggests that the actions of a small number of Jews reflects on all Jews everywhere. It dehumanizes Jews, and I would like you to stop.
______________________________________________________________________What the hell are you talking about Dan ?I could say I am Jewish which would be done to insulate from any accusation of anti semitism, but you have done the reverse. You are warning me that you are Jewish and that I am almost engaging in anti semitism. You do this because you do not like my answers.I am defending Jews to the maximum and suudenly I am borderline anti semitism walking. It is you who are denying the rationalization of the Arab holocaust against Jews. You are the anti semite.You prove what you accused me of withdraw it.I have no idea what you are talking about in this Israel/Jewish separation. It is a non-sequitor, it is you getting whipped so you invent something to deflect away from this fact.It doesn't matter if you are Jewish or not. I am as pro Jew as any person on the face of the Earth.You can't beat me in argument so you look for an opportunity to outright warn/lie via argue a certain way or I will brand your argument anti Jew.What the hell are you talking about.In fact, carry out your threat. I won't do what you said I better.

Zephyr writes:
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I have done neither. The goalposts shift so fast with you that I cannot attempt to address every point from the same exact angle in every post. I offered arguments that did not depend on the existence or prevalence of anti-semitic views and thus may have appeared to accept your impression of how common they are
______________________________________________________________________OK I accept this explanation and I agree.Zephyr quote:
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More recently I may have pointed out that you had no evidence to show that anti-semitism is more common among the educated.
______________________________________________________________________I never claimed it was more common among the educated. I pointed out the anti semitism among a specific group of persons and then pointed out what they have in common with Nazi's.I am/have singled out highly educated professors who justify suicide bombings and then asked whats the difference between them and skinheads/Nazi's ? Nothing at all. Each group justifies the murder of Jews.

The relevance of this link evidences that there is a sizable body of professors who are vehemently against Israel.Then I will add, how many amongst these intellectuals do you think make excuses for Palestinian terror ?It is no stretch to assume some.

I have not accused you of anti-semitism, nor have I threatened you. I have pointed out that you are making comments which are both dehumanizing to Jews, and fallacious, and that I would like you to stop using such arguments.If you would like to discuss cases of prejudice against Jews, then by all means, bring one up and let's discuss it. If all you have is cases in which arguments are made against the Israeli government, and you try to pass those off as prejudice against Jews, then you are essentially saying, "Jews, Israel... what's the difference?" So once again, since you (by your own admission) seem to have trouble understanding this one, I'll try to make it as simple as possible... the two are not interchangable terms. To use them as such is insulting. It is akin to saying, "inner city gangbanger, black guy... what's the difference?" The actions of a few do not reflect on the whole, nor is decrying the actions of a few tantamount to prejudice against the race.Now, you go on quite a bit here about how I got whipped, and how you beat me in the argument... does that mean you'll be addressing the rest of my previous post, or would you rather continue the "nuh-uh, you're an anti-semite!"s and proudly proclaim victory?

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"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly