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Author Topic:   What Is The Positive Evidence For Atheism?
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 241 of 301 (437138)
11-28-2007 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 10:47 PM


Re: Atheist Hypocrites....
So you as usual have no answer except your unsupported assertions.
You claim "Evolution claims to be the positive evidence for Atheism." yet in your typical fundy manner offer NO support or evidence. Can you show where "evolution" made such a claim?
That still leaves the question of "why positive evidence is needed to not believe in gsddlstlfl" is even needed?
The fact that your god-sense has been removed does not excuse you from having to at least try to support your assertions.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 10:47 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:30 PM jar has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2558 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 242 of 301 (437139)
11-28-2007 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 10:34 PM


Re: Atheist Hypocrites....
GOD/Ray writes:
Crashfrog has said many times that evolution supports the non-existence of God, has he changed his view? Has he departed from his hero Richard Dawkins?
The point that people like Dawkins make is that evolution takes away the necessity for a direct creator God of life. However, it does not in anyway disprove that a God created this universe. It is evidence against a simpleton's concept of a God, if you like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 10:34 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1548 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 243 of 301 (437141)
11-28-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 10:40 PM


I pointed out that a crackpot First Cause belief (space aliens) do not negate their evolutionism thereafter.
It's not just the first cause. Did you investigate their beliefs? They're crackpots, I agree, but as atheists who dispute evolution they're a counterexample to their claims.
Your question is also a rhetorical point silently attempting to act like the vast majority of Atheists are not evolutionists when they are, silly.
I'm not saying the vast majority aren't, so don't misrepresent me.
It's just wrong to say that they all are.
At any rate, I don't understand the significance of the claim. Sure, most atheists are evolutionists, because atheists are people who follow the evidence where it leads, and there's ample evidence for evolution and atheism. Most likely you'll find that atheists don't believe in Bigfoot, or in alien abductions, or the Loch Ness monster.
Do you find that equally significant?
You evidently cannot refute.
Refute what? That atheists, as a whole, are more likely to accept scientific evidence than Christians? I already believe that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 10:40 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5996 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 244 of 301 (437142)
11-28-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 10:52 PM


Re: All Aethiest are Evolutionist?
Or maybe these people just rejected superstition and primitive anthropomorphic views of gods - like you hold so dear.
And this paper that you are going release that is to destroy the ToE?
If you don't release this paper are you going to admit that you have been suffering from delusions of grandeur?
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 10:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by anglagard, posted 11-28-2007 11:29 PM iceage has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 245 of 301 (437144)
11-28-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by crashfrog
11-28-2007 10:36 PM


Come On Crashfrog!
Crashfrog: you are on record, in a lengthy topic that you authored ("People - I /was /a Christian") blasting Christians for having an imaginary relationship with them self via delusion. Conversely you were also saying that the evidence for evolution sealed the deal concerning the falsity of Theism. Do you now deny?
Do I need to dredge up these messages?
Moving on....
Q. How could Atheists and Christians accept the same biological origins theory? This makes no sense since one party denies the existence of God while the other affirms. Are TEists deluded, Crashfrog?
Are you now subordinate to TEists? Since when do Atheists like yourself need a Theist to buttress your position?
Where is your objectivity in all of this?
Or are you going to act like you do not understand?
If you are suddenly uncomfortable concerning TEists then just say so and that will answer all of my questions and points?
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2007 10:36 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by jar, posted 11-28-2007 11:22 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 248 by crashfrog, posted 11-28-2007 11:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 246 of 301 (437145)
11-28-2007 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 11:12 PM


Re: Come On Crashfrog!
How could Atheists and Christians accept the same biological origins theory?
Uh Ray, what does Evolution have to do with biological origins? Why can't you ever actually address the issues? How come you NEVER get something right?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:12 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 301 (437146)
11-28-2007 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 10:19 PM


If it is entirely negative then just say so. Then I will promptly point out that all Atheists are evolutionists.
But you do that regardless what anyone says.
Well, he does!

Progress in human affairs has come mainly through the bold readiness of human beings not to confine themselves to seeking piecemeal improvements in the way things are done, but to present fundamental challenges in the name of reason to the current way of doing things and to the avowed or hidden assumptions on which it rests. -- E. H. Carr

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1548 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 248 of 301 (437147)
11-28-2007 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 11:12 PM


Re: Come On Crashfrog!
Conversely you were also saying that the evidence for evolution sealed the deal concerning the falsity of Theism.
When, specifically, did I say that?
Do I need to dredge up these messages?
Yes. I need you to specifically post the messages where I said that evolution proves atheism, since I have no recollection of ever saying such a thing.
How could Atheists and Christians accept the same biological origins theory?
I suspect a Christian could accept any theory they wanted to, since Christianity has never been an impediment to doing what someone really wanted to do.
Are TEists deluded, Crashfrog?
Yes, because they believe in God. They're right about evolution, though. So that's something.
Since when do Atheists like yourself need a Theist to buttress your position?
I don't need them. But it's ridiculous to act like they don't exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:12 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 918 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 249 of 301 (437149)
11-28-2007 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by iceage
11-28-2007 11:02 PM


A Smidgen Off Topic - But Curious
iceage (in reference to CFO) writes:
And this paper that you are going release that is to destroy the ToE?
From your registration date, it appears you have been here awhile. IIRC Ray is not the only person to have made the claim that they have this magical secret project that once published will overthrow the majority of all the discoveries of natural science since the Renaissance.
Has anyone, yourself included, kept track of such claims?
I was just curious. Perhaps one should start a thread concerning the number of various claimants and the expected date according to their own postings of the anticipated magnum opus, including missed deadlines.
Just thought such a PNT may prove interesting.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by iceage, posted 11-28-2007 11:02 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by iceage, posted 11-28-2007 11:43 PM anglagard has not replied
 Message 253 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:52 PM anglagard has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 250 of 301 (437150)
11-28-2007 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by jar
11-28-2007 10:54 PM


Re: Atheist Hypocrites....
So you as usual have no answer except your unsupported assertions.
This is a typical lazy reply by Jar. Axioms and syllogisms need no support.
You claim "Evolution claims to be the positive evidence for Atheism." yet in your typical fundy manner offer NO support or evidence. Can you show where "evolution" made such a claim?
Evolution is based on materialism, which in essence says causation is perpetually material and never Divine. This is 101 stuff. Since you claim to be a TEist your question is a rhetorical point and a declaration that you intend to defy the undisputed and objective intent of transmutation: the God of Genesis does not exist.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by jar, posted 11-28-2007 10:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 11-28-2007 11:33 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 259 by Lithodid-Man, posted 11-29-2007 12:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 251 of 301 (437151)
11-28-2007 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 11:30 PM


Re: Atheist Hypocrites....
So you as usual have no answer except your unsupported assertions.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:30 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5996 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 252 of 301 (437153)
11-28-2007 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by anglagard
11-28-2007 11:29 PM


Re: A Smidgen Off Topic - But Curious
Ray is the first I have ever encountered who claims to have the mother of all papers that is going to destroy ToE. I believe he claimed it is currently being reviewed by his editor and will be release by the end of the year.
So keeping this on topic.... Ray is your paper going to have Positive Evidence for the Negative validity of Evolution or Negative Evidence for the Positive validity of Evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by anglagard, posted 11-28-2007 11:29 PM anglagard has not replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3129 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 253 of 301 (437154)
11-28-2007 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by anglagard
11-28-2007 11:29 PM


Re: A Smidgen Off Topic - But Curious
From your registration date, it appears you have been here awhile. IIRC Ray is not the only person to have made the claim that they have this magical secret project that once published will overthrow the majority of all the discoveries of natural science since the Renaissance.
Has anyone, yourself included, kept track of such claims?
I was just curious. Perhaps one should start a thread concerning the number of various claimants and the expected date according to their own postings of the anticipated magnum opus, including missed deadlines.
Just thought such a PNT may prove interesting.
Hey, thanks for your interest.
I have missed several deadlines and admitted as much. I do not expect any particular person to keep track of my status reports, and there are persons (at other sites) who have deliberately misrepresented these reports.
My latest deadline, before 2008, will be missed. Previously, I have admitted that I underestimated the task before me. Then I admitted that it took me at least a year to learn how to write. I have also always said that I underestimated how much time research takes. These reasons were the cause of my missed deadlines, and the reason I am going to miss the current deadline is because of time consuming research and organizing the evidence. I also have some copyright problems but they will be solved.
It took Darwin, who was wealthy, twenty years to write the Origin and he had no impediments except health. James Secord has admitted that it took him "a large part of his life" to write Victorian Sensation a book about Vesitges. It took Harvard Professor Janet Browne seven years to write the second half of Darwin's biography after the first was published (1995 to 2002).
In case you did not know I have had a Eureka! moment and I am in possession of original scientific evidence that will refute evolution. I agonize daily over the fear of being scooped but there is nothing I can do until I am completely finished. Finishing is my only concern in life.
I suppose that I will announce another due date ASAP (but it will be worth the wait).
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by anglagard, posted 11-28-2007 11:29 PM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by FliesOnly, posted 11-29-2007 7:03 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 11-29-2007 11:06 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied
 Message 257 by reiverix, posted 11-29-2007 11:39 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4226 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 254 of 301 (437180)
11-29-2007 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 11:52 PM


Re: A Smidgen Off Topic - But Curious
CFO writes:
In case you did not know I have had a Eureka! moment and I am in possession of original scientific evidence that will refute evolution.
Will this at least be in my expected lifetime (I'm in my mid 40s)? Because, I have to admit...I am as excited to see this evidence as is humanly possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by NosyNed, posted 11-29-2007 11:32 AM FliesOnly has not replied
 Message 260 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-29-2007 5:02 PM FliesOnly has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 255 of 301 (437230)
11-29-2007 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Cold Foreign Object
11-28-2007 11:52 PM


Re: A Smidgen Off Topic - But Curious
Ray writes:
I agonize daily over the fear of being scooped ....
I should think that would be the least of your concerns. Isn't getting "the truth" out there more important than getting personal credit for it?

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-28-2007 11:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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