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Author Topic:   King David found guilty on all counts.
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 144 of 174 (380831)
01-29-2007 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by riVeRraT
01-28-2007 9:43 PM


Re: model of morality?
riverat writes:
It is hard to have this conversation with you, because you discredit the OT as being valid, or having ever happened.
I don't think anybody denies the validity of the OT - the question is... does the OT really describe God or worse written by God.
Maybe, just maybe it is some hazy inchoate view of god written by a bronze age people who where at war with their neighbors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by riVeRraT, posted 01-28-2007 9:43 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2007 7:51 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 147 of 174 (380858)
01-29-2007 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by riVeRraT
01-29-2007 7:51 AM


Re: model of morality?
RiverRat writes:
I've always looked at is the word of God written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit.
But there is absolutely nothing internally or externally to recommend the bible (especially the OT) as the word of god or inspired!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2007 7:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2007 5:19 PM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 152 of 174 (381149)
01-29-2007 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by riVeRraT
01-29-2007 5:19 PM


Re: model of morality?
iceage writes:
But there is absolutely nothing internally or externally to recommend the bible (especially the OT) as the word of god or inspired!
riverrat writes:
Yes there is, there is the Holy Spirit
That was a great non-answer.
Specifically what properties, manifestations or evidences emanating from the Holy Spirit leads you to believe that this Spirit inspired, approves or validates the collection of writings that we know as the bible.
If this is too off topic I would be happy to create a new thread if you like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2007 5:19 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2007 9:44 AM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 157 of 174 (381490)
01-31-2007 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by riVeRraT
01-30-2007 9:44 AM


Re: model of morality?
iceage writes:
Specifically what properties, manifestations or evidences emanating from the Holy Spirit leads you to believe that this Spirit inspired, approves or validates the collection of writings that we know as the bible.
RiverRat writes:
Because after my first encounter with the Holy Spirit I went from maybe understanding 20% of the bible, to understanding 80% of it.
I have a simple empirical method that disproves your assertion that the Holy Spirit elucidates the bible.
If what you say is true one would expect to find a certain consistency within the Christian religious faith.
If there is a single reliable timeless entity that facilitates the understanding of the incoherent collection of writings we call the bible, you would see a coherence in religious views.
This is demonstratively not true!!!!
Christianity is fractious as any other ancient religion with branches and trigs and yet smaller trigs. Interestingly this variety of religious creeds and beliefs are reminiscent of animal taxonomy.
.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2007 9:44 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by riVeRraT, posted 02-01-2007 1:57 PM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5936 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 165 of 174 (382003)
02-02-2007 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by riVeRraT
02-01-2007 1:57 PM


Re: model of morality?
riverrat writes:
Your empirical method is highly flawed. There is no possible way to conduct a controlled experiment on the Holy Spirit. At best it will only be subjective.
It it not subjective. Consider the large number of sects and denominations with widely different views of Christianity. Most or all will claim connectivity to the Holy Spirit but believe different things. There is no consistency.
I am not talking about slight difference but mutually exclusive doctrinal differences. For example:
The "God Hates Fags" church (Westboro Baptist Church) claim the Holy Spirit guides them in their despicable beliefs. The United Church of Christ feel they are in step with Holy Spirit with a opening and affirming view.
The Mormons feel they are in tune to the Holy Spirit as are the Jehovah witness's.
The Christian Identity sect state in their doctrinal statement:
quote:
WE BELIEVE in the personally revealed being of God the Holy Spirit, the Comforter...
and
WE BELIEVE the White, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic and kindred people to be God's true, literal Children of Israel
So when you say...
RiverRat writes:
How we interpret the Holy Spirit is up to us, and who we are, were we are at with God.
You are not kidding.
RiverRat writes:
I have seen several times were a room full of people will all feel the same thing from the Holy Spirit.
And what is your conclusion when you everybody feels moved by the Spirit but disagree on the revelation?
BTW when like minded people get together often they will "feel the same thing". Not much to hang your hat on there.
Remember the point of this discussion was the the Holy Spirit is the reason to believe the bible with its inconsistent and conflicting message is really god breathed. You have not done that with your weak and subjective "proof"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by riVeRraT, posted 02-01-2007 1:57 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by riVeRraT, posted 02-04-2007 7:58 AM iceage has not replied

  
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