King David found guilty on all counts.

I don't think that the bible codons what David did, but points out that it was wrong. And since you felt the same thing, not much has changed at all. Who knows, given the right circumstance, you might have "went for it."

So what, David was human.

I didn't say you were. Who was also a man, and realized what he did was wrong, no big deal really, and not a reason to count the bible out as inaccurate. The bible claims there was only one person sin free. No.Big job, big mistakes. Don't argue the person again, please....
It invalidates anything you say when you do that. Does that make you better than King David, or more advanced?
Does this mean that God doesn't exist?
Who knows what kind of things King David had to turn away from as king. He was just a man, just like you and I.

Who's shrugging?and who's a fundie?

Well put jar.

I don't see a problem with that. It is consistent with life, and the rest of the people in the bible, except for Jesus. Yes it is equally sinful. The bible says if you've commited one, then you've commited tham all. It makes us all relatively equal, in one aspect. It is a matter of your heart. Then that just shows evidence of free will then, doesn't it? I really don't get what your trying to prove here. No where in the bible does God say that He has chosen the perfect leader who will not commit any mistakes. I can only apply the morals, and lessons of the bible, and see exactly how the story fits in with the rest of life. The mistakes David had made are now lessons for millions of people. At one time I felt exactly the same way you did, but before I believed in God, I worked in a hospital, sometimes spending a significant amount of time in the mental ward, where they kept Son of Sam, in Kings County hospital in NY. I talked to many "crazy people" and consulers, and I have determined to humble myself regarding that line of thinking, and I fully realize we are only a few circumstances away from doing anything. I find it impossible to sit here and say I will not do this or that, when the truth is you just don't know. Of course you or I do not desire to do any of those things, just like David at one time in his life probably did not desire to do what he did.Also to clarify, I do not feel threatened by eternal damnation, or heavenly rewards, I am a good person by nature, but nature can change that. When David was younger he did not do those thing either. Thats only your narrow minded view of God. Try not putting God in a box. According to your opinion. His ways are not our ways. Each and everyone of us are responsible for what we do, period.

I don't get it. There was only one sin free.I think you've been condemned by to many Chriatians in your life. If you have, then I guess I am apologetic in a manner of speaking, because no-one should be judging anyone, or condemning.I think we can condone sin in a manner of speaking, since no-one is sin-free. But that doesn't mean they can get away with it. So I don't get how I am a fundie for saying that. First off, I am not a big fan of religion, even though I am deeply involved in one. It will only last as long as the people I deal with are nice to me, and do not judge me.Of course we let people do what they do. The only real reason for religion is to let people know of God's love, by hopefully sharing the love that which we feel from God to others. If that love is genuine, then you will feel God's love through me. That is the best I can hope for.I don't think God is shruggin off anything, but according to the bible He is forgiving you when you get to heaven, if you feel remorse (repent) and believe in Jesus (or the name of Jesus)(or maybe even what Jesus represents). That doesn't allow anyone to get away with what they do here on earth, or in heaven. We all pay for our sins in some way, shape or form.

I am not making excuses for anyone. I am just saying, the mistakes of King David has nothing to do with God choosing him. That was your original point, that why would God choose a guy who would make such a mistake? As if to say that God made a mistake. But God or the bible never claim that King david would have been, or was the perfect person. Only Jesus was the only one without sin, and because of King David's, others like him, and their mistakes, is why Jesus needed to come and show us how we should be, and give us all forgiveness, because we are all screwballs in one aspect or another.And of course I personally feel that murder, and conspiracy is way worse than stealing a candy bar, but it's your heart that is heading in the wrong direction on both accounts. When a little kid steals a candy bar, his kingdom is the candy store, and his friends around him, so in one aspect I can see how sins can be equal, but that doesn't make them equal to us here on earth.You make the claim that you would never do such a thing as what King David did, yet you really just don't know, since you are not surrounded by the same set of circumstances as him, or were you born with the same set of desires as him.

I have no real way of knowing if God makes mistakes or not. I don't think anyone does. I believe God know's all, or can see into the future, and may not be bound by time, since He probably created it, but has chosen to not interfere with people's free will for the most part.
It is amazing what we have done with this precious gift. Yes, the responsibility of most things falls on us. It is plainly obvious that many bad things happen in life, and God created it all. Is this whole life a mistake? Or was their really a garden of Eden? Seems that way. I do not pretend to know why, or call in a mistake/ not a mistake.
Who knows, maybe for the time, it was the best decision, and anyone else would have been worse?Your saying God made a mistake, I am saying, or asking, how could you possibly know that answer?
You seem to be implying that if God is perfect, and all knowing, that He would have made a better choice. I don't follow that logic, not from reading the bible, or experiencing life. It is a false assumption.

It is not automatic that because of what David did, that David was a bad choice.

Pardon me? I have made my answers as simple as possible for you to understand. If your not comprehending it, doesn't make me a liar. Yes, God created the world, and life, so what? You will get a simple yes or no, when you stop implying things in your statements, and stop asking "trick" questions.It would also be nice to deal directly with the bible verses, then they can be addressed better.At no point have I denyed, that according to the way you and I think, that David wasn't guilty.Your taking a step further, and blaming God, but God created everything, so then God is to blame for everything. But he gave us free will, and then left the decisions up to us. I am sure that if David would have consulted with God first before doing such a horrendous act, he wouldn't have done it. David also felt bad for what he did. I told you already, several times. David was to blame, we all are to blame for our own mistakes.
I also told you that I cannot possibly know if God made a mistake or not, no-one really can. That's like asking me to judge God. Jesus came to save, not to judge, and I am supposed to try and be like Him.
What David did was wrong, plain and simple. Why he did it, and why God chose him is another story, and we cannot really know the answers for that. I'm a plumber dude, but thanks for the compliment.

Understood, but my point was more towards saying that everything we percieve as bad, may not be, according to God.

I am not a bible expert, so that is why I asked if you could refer to specific bible verses, and then we could go from there.My reference to god creating the world, and life, is to say that many bad things happen in life, and it was all created by God. The bible says that everyone who is in power was put there by God, and I assume that means people like Hitler as well. So regarding whatever happened with David, it is all God's fault (technically) if God exists. That is something you have to hurdle over in order to truely believe in God. Pretending that God doesn't allow bad things to happen is a mistake, because what we percieve as bad, may not be in God's eyes. Understanding these thoughts, and they are in the bible, makes me think that assuming God's choice of David was a mistake, could very well be incorrect.I guess it is like catch 22. If your God, and you give people free will, and the ability to choose good and bad, and people choose bad, what do you do about it? What is this whole good and bad thing anyway?

For the record, I am not one of those people. I relly don't know anyone in my church is either.The only one I want to model myself after, is Jesus. And I am far from it.There are however many lessons you can learn by studying the OT stories, but only if you interpret them correctly. I am sure if anyone of us would have lived back then, we would be no less the savages, maybe even worse. There would be lessons learned in our life stories. It is all how you apply them to today's times. Even you has found some good for yourself out of that story, by recognizing how bad David was, and it re-enforces your current positions. So you got something from the story.

That's histerical Brian. Why would you even care since the bible is nothing more than a fable, and David never even existed. Another totally BS comment, since you don't believe in God, then God did not do those things now, did He?I am sick and tired of people like you blaming God for those things, it is beyond stupid.