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Author Topic:   Karl Rove: Traitor?
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 256 of 271 (287529)
02-17-2006 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by randman
02-16-2006 4:24 PM


Consistency and Honesty and integrity lacking in Bush administration
It's that he is not very conservative at all in many ways.
While I agree with this, I would neither call him a centrist, nor would I believe he ran on anything other than a conservatiive platform. He talks one way and then does something else.
He is for Big Gov spending; said he was during the campaign;
I want to see the quote for that one... and I want to see it from his 2000 campaign as well.
Maybe you are now for tax increases?
I would be on a certain portion of wealth, especially to get the books in balance and remove the debt we have incurred.
Clinton, if he had the backing of Congress, probably would have done the same thing, as evidenced by him getting us into all sorts of smaller wars.
What's interesting is that a republican congress refused to give Clinton such permission and derided his military activities in Kosovo as well as his attempts to kill OBL using missile strikes. But then with a Rep in charge it is a-okay?
Heck Bush specifically addressed an Iraq War-type hypothetical in his first campaign and used it to differentiate himself from Gore, and democrats, by stating he would not engage in such campaigns and criticized Clinton and Gore for having done so.
I sure remember that as I agreed and it is was one of the things which helped me decide I'd prefer Bush over Gore. Where did that guy go? Oh yeah, the democrats managed to switch Bush and the rest of the republican congress with clones on 911.
the areas most consider failings directly relate to his liberal side, trusting Big Government as an effective tool.
Sorry but you missed one important part of the liberal side which he does not have and has lead to his great failures, trusting the people to be a part of gov't and taking care of them so that they can be a valid part of society and the gov't.
Liberals do not just "trust big gov't", there is a purpose and he has none. It might be pointed out that liberal programs did in fact work and produced what they needed to for society. There were of course valid criticisms of how big they needed to be and the bureacracy behins them, but things didn't start getting worse until we threw the baby out with the bath water, and then simply piped back in the bath water.
Keep in mind the new Homeland Security idea was also a dem idea, and it ruined our ability to respond to disasters.
I love how it was a Rep idea until it started failing, and now its back to being a dem idea. Hey guess what Rand? Whether it was a democratic idea or not, it was a republican created and run organization. Any and all failures at handling problems were Rep based. Heck look at all of the emergency services. Who was doing the appointing? Who was running the show?
Oh yeah, and as far as honesty goes, who appointed Brown who had no credentials for the job while stating he was going to improve emergency services, and then announced what a great job Brown was doing while a manmade disaster was going on because of Brown?

holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by randman, posted 02-16-2006 4:24 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by randman, posted 02-17-2006 3:45 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 265 of 271 (287795)
02-17-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by randman
02-17-2006 3:45 PM


Re: Consistency and Honesty and integrity lacking in Bush administration
First, there was the uncanny timing of the Clinton war attacks that just happened to deflect off of impeachment proceedings and things like that.
??? Are you kidding me? Find me the timeline, and let me know how he engineered these actions to correspond with the actions of foreign national leaders opposed to the US. I mean its not like he just up and did something in a vaccuum.
Secondly, the simple fact is the GOP was reluctant to get into nation-building prior to 911, but after 911, it was war... democratizing Iraq could change the equation in the Middle East.
So you admit changes were made and he did reverse his campaign promises. Hey 911 affected me too. You know what I didn't do? Start believing neocon rhetoric and reverse my stance on how military is best used.
You never heard "No Child Left Behind" and other campaign promises.
Let's pretend I didn't. Please show how and where Bush ran on big gov't as the answer to national problems.
We have to agree to disagree there because I think they do.
No we won't. I explained a difference and you didn't even try to address it. In order for us to agree to disagree we must agree on the evidence and the fact that it is not definitive.
911 freaked them out because hardcore Islamicists like the nuclear scientist in Pakistan had the bomb, backed the Taliban, and they thought maybe some American cities would be taken out
Again, that doesn't answer the issue at all. Great so the reason they betrayed their values and promises is because they didn't know how to handle a crisis. That still means that they betrayed their values and campaign promises.
It was a dem idea as was campaign finance reform despite McCain backing it as a Rep. Both have failed miserably, imo.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the executive and legislative branches have been locked up by Reps since 2000. Whether the concept of DHS originated with a dem or not, it was advanced and put into place and mismanaged by Reps.
Really, Reps can't blame the dems for anything that has happened since gaining full control of the gov't. If they used "dem" ideas, that just means they are also "rep" ideas.
Side note, while I hated the name for DHS I still think it was a good idea to revamp and centralize intelligence and emergency services. How Bush and Co handled it was a majorclusterfuck from the get go... but that's the same for every other thing they've put their hands on, and why should that be any different?

holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by randman, posted 02-17-2006 3:45 PM randman has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 268 of 271 (301635)
04-06-2006 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Dan Carroll
04-06-2006 1:25 PM


Sorry Dan, its not real until Fox carries the story. Not even thinkable. I will be (pleasantly) surprised if Fox actually runs and supports the story.
What's the sound of millions of people waking up all at once?

holmes
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-06-2006 1:25 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 3:08 PM Silent H has replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 270 of 271 (301848)
04-07-2006 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by jar
04-06-2006 3:08 PM


Re: Fair and Balanced.
Yeah but...
Nothing in the papers indicate Bush or Cheney told Libby to reveal the name of CIA analyst Valerie Plame, nor do they suggest that either the president or vice president did anything illegal
... my guess is the Tal-heads will stick with that sentence.

holmes
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 04-06-2006 3:08 PM jar has not replied

  
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