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Author Topic:   Who's Watched the Watchmen?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 1 of 19 (501870)
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


**** SPOILER FREE ****
I have Saw it last night with my wife.
A little background: Watchmen was bought for me in 1989. I wasn't a huge comic book fan - much more fantasy and sci-fi - but the graphic novel presentation was fantastic, and I was quickly hooked. I can't say how many times I have read it since, or how many hours (days?) I have spent deconstructing it with friends. My wife wrote a critical analysis of it as part of her BA (or MA, can't remember which), long before we met.
Reviews by fanbois have been somewhat polarised, so I was rather nervous entering the cinema - I ws dreading being bored or appalled by the film. So what did I think...?
I cannot begin to express just how much I loved it on first viewing. I was sucked in from the opening frames and did not come for breath until the end. I was IN the comic. The characters were alive around me. The joy at seeing the frames come to life was immense. Now, I must admit that being so overwhelmed by the experience means that I'm in no real position to express an objective opinion on the piece as a whole. It was impossible to distinguish comic from screen, so to all those naysayers who say that just about all of Moore's depths of satire were lost, I say BULLSHIT, but I cannot promise that I wasn't simply projecting my knowledge of the literature into the cinemtaic experience. BUT if the film enabled me to do this, then what more can I ask? Would someone with no knowledge of the comic come away from the film with a full appreciation of Moore's ideas? Not a hope. But neither did I, on just one reading of the comic...
The new ending? It has some possible flaws that have been mentioned around if you dig into it a bit, but on the whole it worked well. I'll say more if we get to spoilers. Other issues: there were some weak deliveries at times, and some lines that needed a tweak to sound more natural, but I would be hard pressed to tell you where these occured. I'm sure a 2nd and 3rd viewing will make me more critical. But for now, I am still wallowing in the delight of last night's experience.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 2 of 19 (501882)
03-08-2009 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


Going to see it tonight
Like the title says, I'm going to see it tonight, I'll post my review of it here tomorrow sometime I think. I've not yet read the comic, but I do intend to read it once I've seen the movie.

I hunt for the truth

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 3 of 19 (501895)
03-08-2009 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


Just seen it.
I really enjoyed it but it did drag on a bit with the 'meet the party' sections.
I've read the comics (when they were still called that) but I could only really remember Rorshach and how he had to wear lifts in his shoes.
Subtext normally goes over me (I just about made the reference to Pa Nite Owl working on obsolete models) so I can't really comment about it very much; other than to say it seemed as if they (the heroes) all had different moral outlooks without choosing one outlook as 'privileged'.
I was a bit confused about how Ozymandias was a way better fighter than both Nite Owl and Rorschach (I thought his plan was to recreate the Dr Manhattan 'incident' for himself and that explained how he pwn them both).
The prison scenes where a riot! (sorry for the pun!)
My girl friend made me laugh however, when she observed that Dr Manhattan got his powers from too much electricity.
Best scene? Face fry up.
Best line: "You are locked in with me!"
Best character? Rorschach.
Random fact? The Comedian was Sam and Deans' dad in supernatural.

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 4 of 19 (501897)
03-08-2009 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
03-08-2009 1:07 PM


quote:
Best line: "You are locked in with me!"
My favourite line from the comic book! Before that, you think that you're getting a handle on just how crazy Rorschach is. When he says that, you know there's no hint of compromise left in him. It occurs off-screen, so to speak, in the comic. Glad to see it's there in the film.
Hoping to go see it this week.
Mutate and Survive

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 5 of 19 (501898)
03-08-2009 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Granny Magda
03-08-2009 1:17 PM


My favourite line from the comic book!
But of course not actually delivered by Rorschach in the comic
Anywy, believe me when I say that Jackie Earle Haley IS Rorschach. It is incredible. And Rorschach's line for me is his last, the very simple "DO IT!" , and god does Jackie deliver...

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roxrkool
Member (Idle past 989 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 6 of 19 (501908)
03-08-2009 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


loved it!
I watched the second screening at 9:30 AM on Thursday. I would have gone at Midnight for the first showing, but we don't do babysitters. I knew nothing about Alan Moore or the Watchmen until I saw V for Vendetta. I became fascinated by Alan Moore and his stories and ended up starting a new collection. I even have the original entire Watchmen series (VF-NM) waiting to go on my wall once I have a place worthy enough to display it.
I absolutely loved it. Like you, I was captured from the second it started till the second it ended with heart pounding the entire time. I did not find any point in the the movie that dragged or bored me or disappointed me. At first, some of the music choices were a bit surprising and odd, but but then I remembered it's the fricken' 80s, for crying out loud. The music forces us back and reminds us the movie is not set in a different world, it's an alternate reality. Same thing with the costumes. Almost campy until I realized, again, it IS the 80s -- and what other decade in history was campier than the 80s?
My husband had never read the g-novel and knew nothing at all about the story. All I told him was than it was based on a comic where superheroes exist in an alternate reality and they've been outlawed. He had no trouble following the story and found it just as fantastic as I did. I certainly do not feel that the significance of Alan Moore's story was lost in the movie. Not at all.
I thought the actors did a wonderful job in their portrayals, but Rorschach was particularly compelling. It was a good choice to use less well known actors because too many times it's hard to get away from seeing them in their previous roles. I cannot even imagine Jude Law as Rorschach. After the movie I had to know who Haley was. Once I realized who it was, I was surprised. I had in fact seen him in many movies. While I can't say I ever liked him much in any of his other roles (he always played a scuzzy, ugly, weasel of a character), this role is his crowning glory. I also really enjoyed watching Patrick Wilson (Nite Owl) and Billy Crudup, who was fantastic as Dr. Manhattan.
My only disappointment is that it is not playing on our IMAX screen.

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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 7 of 19 (501910)
03-08-2009 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


Saw it Friday night on IMax. Loved it. Yes it is not perfect, but for a story that was considered unfilmable it's a pretty amazing accomplishment.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 19 (501939)
03-08-2009 7:00 PM


Going to see it with the Mrs in an hour. Already bought the tickets.

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 9 of 19 (502048)
03-09-2009 12:36 PM


Review (no spoilers)
Right, my review.
Like I said, I hadn't read the graphic novel, so I didn't know what it was about (aside from the general plot). I went in expecting something like "300", seeing as that was also a graphic novel filmed by Zack Snyder.
It was nothing like that.
It was better.
Yes, there's not that much action in this one, however, after seeing this, I have to say that more action isn't always a good thing. The balance was perfect I'd say, the story is very compelling, and the shots are all beautiful. It's got a dark gloomy and sometimes sadistic atmosphere, and I like that.
I've got my hands on the motion comic and on the graphic novel and I certainly intend to watch the motion comic, it's about 6 hours long, and I believe it is the entire graphic novel but animated and with a voice actor (yes, just one). And after that also read the novel.
So, in short, I recommend this to everyone who's not afraid of heavier, darker films, you'll enjoy it a great deal.

I hunt for the truth

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 10 of 19 (502157)
03-10-2009 3:03 AM


Watchmen as a saturday morning cartoon!
The title says it all, what would happen if they'd turn it into a Saturday morning cartoon?
I think something like this:

I hunt for the truth

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 11 of 19 (502312)
03-10-2009 10:32 PM


OK, seen it, loved it.
It's true that there are some flaws, but I thought that it was as good a treatment as you could expect. According to Moore, half the point in his work is to do stuff that only comic books can do. That's certainly true of Watchmen.
I felt that the pace came and went a little and that quite often the actors seemed to be rushing their dialogue where a dramatic pause or two wouldn't have gone amiss. The ending seemed to lack tension and impact, probably due to the lack of empathy; we never got to know those supporting characters in New York, so we don't have as much emotional investment when it kicks off...
Having said that, I did really enjoy it. It was a real pleasure seeing certain scenes writ large on the screen like that. The general look and feel were great. The effects were mostly very good and the characters were very well realised. The actors playing Rorschach and the Comedian gave really memorable performances and I thought that Dreiberg in particular was perfectly pitched.
As for the ending? I can live with it, although my friend went into a total fit about it. He was not happy. Of course, he handled it better than this guy...
Mutate and Survive

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

  
BMG
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 357
From: Southwestern U.S.
Joined: 03-16-2006


Message 12 of 19 (502315)
03-11-2009 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


Wow
What a great flick. I have never read the graphic novel, and had very little background info regarding the plot, history, etc,- I read the opening paragraph about the Watchmen on wikipedia, and the few posts here...that's it- but like several others here, I was hooked from the beginning and never lost interest.
Side note- Rox, I personally was seduced by the opening credits with Bob Dylan and the comic-like cinematography that gave so much depth with so little motion. I enjoy music that pulls me in two directions at once.
The characters were complex and complicated. I actually wouldn't have minded if the film went into even greater detail about their pasts and inner struggles, but I guess that's what the g novel is for, which I will try to make time to read.
I thoroughly enjoyed all the characters, but felt The Comedian to be the most intriguing. Ozymandias(sp?), IIRC, was left a little dry; I would have liked a greater background and character development for him.
Lastly, to end this rant, the fact that superheroes were shown to have "super issues", and no immunization to human drama, was truly a breath of fresh air.
Liked it, loved it, will likely see it again.

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 13 of 19 (502324)
03-11-2009 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by cavediver
03-08-2009 10:54 AM


I haven't read the graphic novel (well, I've read the first few pages), but I do know the general storyline and I didn't think the changed ending was bad. The plot purpose it served was identical even though the details were changed. Given that the movie didn't discuss any of the background that would be required to result in the ending, and the movie was long enough as it was, I don't find it to be a problem. Given that many of the scenes were apparently set to be identical to the artwork in the novel (I have seen the center page of the mirror issue and recognized the imagery), I can understand why some fanboys might be upset, though.
That said, there were a few times where it was clear that something was going over my head due to an undisclosed reference that only fanboys would understand. For example, I know enough about the plot of the novel to know about the lynx, but there is nothing in the movie to justify its existence on screen: It is there simply to appease fanboys.
But it was a good movie. Some things that stuck out:
1) The gigantic dildo sitting on the mantlepiece in the Comedian's living room with the graduated butt plugs neatly lined up next to it. Was this some sort of snide dig at Verizon's commercials with the graduated bars appearing as trees and stacks of newspapers in the background?
2) Silk Spectre II completely cock-blocked herself! She recovered OK, but my god did she screw herself over.
3) Make sure you don't see it with a bunch of teenagers or be prepared for a chorus of immaturity when the full frontal of Dr. Manhattan comes along.
4) Ultra-violence, in and of itself, I'm OK with, but the displays of the broken bones and torn flesh got to me. This is why I could never be a surgeon: Once the patient is open and I'm staring at a beating heart or whatever, that's fine. It's the cutting of the skin that just wigs me out. Be prepared.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3644 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 14 of 19 (502441)
03-11-2009 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Rrhain
03-11-2009 5:06 AM


3) Make sure you don't see it with a bunch of teenagers or be prepared for a chorus of immaturity when the full frontal of Dr. Manhattan comes along.
That's what I like about the UK 18 rating compared with the US R rating. It means we don't have to put up with the above Interestingly, before the film, they were advertising special 18+ only viewings for films of all ratings.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 15 of 19 (502444)
03-11-2009 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by cavediver
03-11-2009 2:19 PM


18?
It's 16 over here. But I agree, don't watch it with immature assholes (no matter their age), because that will probably ruin some parts.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
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