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Author Topic:   Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread)
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 210 of 300 (336961)
07-31-2006 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
07-31-2006 3:37 PM


Never-ending violence
Faith writes:
ENDING THEIR ABILITY TO PERFORM TERRORIST ACTS IS THE POINT.
It's downright naive to think that this can ever be achieved this way. Israel will never be able to eradicate Hezbollah with violence. Each Israeli act of violence will instill hatred into people who may not have been supporters of Hezbollah yet, but become just that because of it. If anything can be learned from what has happened in the Middle East since 1948, it's that violence always breeds counter-violence. You'd think that those people over there would have noticed the downward spiral by now, but no.
I'm not defending Hezbollah, I think it's a criminal organization all right, but I don't think that one crime justifies another, and I think that what Israel is doing in Lebanon is a just as much a war crime as Hezbollah's firing rockets into Israel is.
what's wrong with killing murderous criminals anyway?
What's wrong with it is that by doing so, you become murderous yourself and you're therefore well on your way to becoming what they are.
Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 07-31-2006 3:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-31-2006 4:30 PM Parasomnium has not replied
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 07-31-2006 5:15 PM Parasomnium has replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 269 of 300 (337137)
08-01-2006 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
07-31-2006 5:15 PM


Re: Never-ending violence
Faith, quoting me, writes:
It's downright naive to think [ending their ability to perform terrorist acts] can ever be achieved this way. [...] You'd think that those people over there would have noticed the downward spiral by now, but no.
I would think that those people over there and here would have noticed the true cause of this downward spiral by now, but no.
I wasn't talking about the "true cause", I was merely saying that violence is never a solution, and that it's a shame they don't recognize that, on both sides, after all those years.
Faith writes:
I think that what Israel is doing in Lebanon is a just as much a war crime as Hezbollah's firing rockets into Israel is.
Yes, and THAT is the problem, that you make such a false moral equivalence.
If the Israelis have any moral fibre left in them, they do not shell positions where there may be children or other innocent civilians in the line of fire, no matter what. There is no excuse.
Faith writes:
What's wrong with [killing murderous criminals] is that by doing so, you become murderous yourself and you're therefore well on your way to becoming what they are.
You are very wrong. Executing criminals when necessary is a righteous act and it serves to promote peace in the world. It's this equation of criminals with innocents that is the biggest problem in today's world.
I am not equating criminals with innocents. I only think that executing people is a very primitive way of dealing with problems. If executing criminals serves to promote peace in the world, then why is there no peace? That's just another naive idea. People have been executed since the dawn of mankind, so you'd think there would have to be peace by now. Well, the truth of the matter is that there isn't. So executing people isn't working very well for the promotion of peace, is it?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 07-31-2006 5:15 PM Faith has not replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 283 of 300 (337197)
08-01-2006 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
08-01-2006 7:26 AM


Re: A real solution
Faith writes:
You guys don't live in the real world. Parasomnium, Nighttrain, Ringo, Jaderis. I give up.
Come on Faith, that's too easy. What's so other-worldly about denouncing violence as a solution to a problem? Or about thinking that shelling positions with children in the vicinity, no matter how the situation arose, is morally questionable, to say the least? Or about thinking that executing people is not a good way of making progress as a society? Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not kill"?
Here's a real solution. Cadres and legions of Christians from all over the world, but especially America, should be going into both Lebanon and Israel and all over the Middle East. By the thousands. Under heavy prayer cover.
As solutions go, it might indeed be better than the current war in southern Lebanon. I imagine a Lebanese father shouting to his wife and children: "Look out! Incoming prayer!" and the wife replying: "Mwah..."
But anyway, if it's a solution, I'm not entirely sure what problem it's a solution to. The surplus of American Christians? The lack of suitable targets for suicide bombers? To give the flies some respite from dying like themselves? I don't want to insult anyone, but "heavy prayer cover" sounds a lot more not-of-this-world than anything I've seen in this thread so far. Besides, it's exactly that kind of thinking - the religious fundamentalist kind of thinking - which is causing the problems in the first place.
I will now stop arguing and start praying.
Like I said, that's too easy. Anyway, if I know you a little, you're not going to stop arguing.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 08-01-2006 7:26 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Faith, posted 08-01-2006 11:37 AM Parasomnium has replied

Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 285 of 300 (337206)
08-01-2006 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Faith
08-01-2006 11:37 AM


Re: A real solution
Faith writes:
So you're Israel, and you refuse to retaliate against Hezbollah, or against Hamas or any of them. You throw down your arms. What is going to happen in your very very wise and indeed prescient opinion?
You're gaining the praise of the rest of the world for your restraint, Hezbollah is going to get very bad press, they will lose the popular support of their own people, and in the end they will give up their weapons.
It's happened before, it can happen again.
On the other hand, if the violence continues, things might soon get out of hand and before you know it, you're looking at a full-scale war in the Middle East. Syria is joining in, next Iran, then Saudi-Arabia. Israel has nuclear weapons, who's to say they are not going to deploy them? How much damage are you going to accept in order to eradicate terrorism? And will you ever be able to completely eradicate terrorism by violent means? Israel may be able to obliterate all of its neighbours, but the world is larger than that. What about all the other muslims in the Ummah? In Indonesia and elsewhere? Do you think they'll keep quiet when they see their brethren slaughtered by Israel "and the West"? Because that's how they'll see it.
Believe me, the only sensible way for the world to get out of this mess is to stop the violence and talk, talk, talk.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Faith, posted 08-01-2006 11:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 08-01-2006 12:40 PM Parasomnium has not replied

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