|
Author
|
Topic: Israel/Lebanon/Gaza conflict (continuation thread)
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
Message 7 of 300 (333884)
07-21-2006 12:52 AM
|
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
07-20-2006 11:33 PM
|
|
Re: Terrorists To Blame
I see you totally ignored my point that terrorists likely use the emergency equipment to move war supplies et al. Yes, you so asserted. But that is also simply not a sufficient justification. Just because one side might "likely use the emergency equipment to move war supplies et al" does not justify Israel bombing ambulances.
Again it is they who are responsible for the hits on these kinds of targets. Bullshit Buz. It is the Israelis who are responsible. 100% responsible in this case.
Civilians have been warned by Israel to get north so there's not suppose to be any there. If Hezbollah uses them as hostages again they are the murderers of innocents, not Israel. Thank you Buz. Israel has warned folk to leave and so if they don't then it is their own fault if they get bombed. Interesting logic Buz, so if the Palestinians have warned the Israelis to leave the middle east and they stay then it is the Israeli's fault if they get bombed. Keep posting Buz. You make your version of Christianity clearer with every post.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 07-20-2006 11:33 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 27 of 300 (334176)
07-21-2006 11:42 PM
|
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
07-21-2006 11:22 PM
|
|
Re: Not cowards so much as sociopaths & criminals
But the terrorists TARGET civilians. Well, let's look at the situation in Lebanon. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC Israel is pissed because Hezbollah targeted Israeli Military, two soldiers I believe. Military target Faith. In return, Israel attacked civilians. Please point out the Military targets Israel has selected if you believe you can. Or do Israeli Soldiers count as civilians under your scenario?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Faith, posted 07-21-2006 11:22 PM | | Faith has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 47 of 300 (334281)
07-22-2006 12:39 PM
|
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
07-22-2006 9:06 AM
|
|
on return fire.
Mangy, I also pointed out that Israel does not know from where the rocket was fired. That is a very damning indictment of Israel if true.
Only the responding missle will seek that out and it had to be the spot from where the terrorist missile came. Right? No buz, that is not true. If you wish to discuss missle vs missle (which will likely turn quickly into 'spy vs spy' then you really need to learn a little about the capabilities and tactics of the various missles and peoples. I will be happy to try discussing that with you if you wish, either here or in another thread.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 9:06 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 4:45 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 57 of 300 (334357)
07-22-2006 6:45 PM
|
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
07-22-2006 4:45 PM
|
|
Re: on return fire.
The difference is that Israel has hi tech which both detects the area of enemy fire beyond human vision and hi tech pin point ability to respond to the attack, pinpointing the exact lauch position with responding rockets. Buz, you just keep making things worse for the Israelis. Directing responding fire at the location where rockets were, but are no longer, is simply terrorism. There is no other way to describe it.
So briefly, do or do not Israel's rockets have the ability to seek and pinpoint enemy launch targets? No they don't, and TTBOMK no Nation's missles have that capability and to do so would be futile in most cases. Stupid in many cases. Detection equipment can calculate back the trajectory of a missle or shell and give you an idea (with varying degrees of accuracy) of the point of origin. But in these cases such a capability is useless. The rocket being fired at Israel are from mobile, very mobile launchers. The vast majority of them are short range ones that are set up, fired by a timing device, and the people that launch them have left even before the rocket fires. When Israel fires at the location where a rocket was launched they can ONLY be fireing at Civilians, the folk that fired teh rocket are long gone. Second, stop and think about what you said. You are claiming that a rocket can target the location where the other rocket was fired from. In most cases that would be really silly. In the case of ground supression, what was targeted was not the launch facility but the radar that aimed it. In tank-tank warfare what is targeted is the other tank. In artillery-artillery barage, what is targeted is the other artillery. In the situation in Lebanon, none of those situations apply. Hezbollah has no radar or guidance systems. Missles are launched often after the Hezbollah fighters have left the area. The shorthest ranged missles, the Katushias are near impossible to trace. They are low flying and short ranged weapons with a flight time too short to be detected or calculated. I'm sorry Buz, but the more you try to defend what is happening the more you make Israel look like the terrorist.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 4:45 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 6:54 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 59 of 300 (334360)
07-22-2006 6:49 PM
|
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
07-22-2006 6:32 PM
|
|
Re: buzsaw's latest view on the conflict
According to Fox's mitilary experts there was a time when this was true but they have been upgraded to be launched from motor vehicles. As usual either Fox news is lying or you misinterpret what is said. The smaller rockets can be carried in a car. They are not launched from a car. They can be carried and launched from a flatbed truck. But guess what Buz, the truck then drives away. By the time that Israel returns fire there is nobody there but Civilians.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 6:32 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 7:04 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 62 of 300 (334382)
07-22-2006 7:40 PM
|
Reply to: Message 60 by Buzsaw
07-22-2006 6:54 PM
|
|
Re: on return fire.
jar writes:
Buz, you just keep making things worse for the Israelis. Directing responding fire at the location where rockets were, but are no longer, is simply terrorism. There is no other way to describe it. to which buz strangely replies:
quote:
So you're denying that the rocket launchers flee the rocket launch site after launch as is being reported on Fox News by military experts? If so can you provide doumented support for your position?
Buz, what in the hell does your reply have to do with what I said?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 6:54 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 63 of 300 (334387)
07-22-2006 7:49 PM
|
Reply to: Message 61 by Buzsaw
07-22-2006 7:04 PM
|
|
Re: buzsaw's latest view on the conflict
2. So you're admitting that Hezbollah terrorists launch from among civilian targets so as for the returning fire to hit the civilians. I'm glad you're beginning to get that straight, that terrorists have no regard for the lives of civilians, so long as their interests in advancing their own power is advanced. No, I admit no such thing. They launch the rockets from where they live, the areas in southern Lebanon. It is Israel who then returns fire to a location which has already been abandoned by those who fired the rockets. And they launch rockets to hit their targets, it is the Israelis who are then dumb enough to fire their rockets where the terrorists ain't. Buz, sorry but your description of Israeli behavior makes them look not just like terrorist, but like very stupid terrorists. Let me ask you a very simple question. How successful will a duck hunter be who shoots where the duck was a few minutes ago instead of where the duck will be?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 07-22-2006 7:04 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2006 10:36 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 69 of 300 (334675)
07-23-2006 10:58 PM
|
Reply to: Message 68 by Buzsaw
07-23-2006 10:36 PM
|
|
Re: buzsaw's latest view on the conflict
I said way back that the Israelis did not know whether the enemy launch site was stationary or a movable vehicle et al. Some they can take out and others get away. So they pull a Dick Cheney and shoot before they know what they are shooting at. Buz, if I were your I'd quit while I was behind.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2006 10:36 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 91 of 300 (335579)
07-26-2006 9:49 PM
|
Reply to: Message 90 by Buzsaw
07-26-2006 9:28 PM
|
|
Re: So why is Israel targeting the UN?
1. There is to be an investigation. Israel says it was an accident. In war messages get missdirected, et al. Let the investigation produce the case for Israel's claim before convicting them as the secretary general has done. An investigation by who? Israel? You have got to be kidding. AbE: And this just in from the BBC. And we wonder why the US is a target. Edited by jar, : add link to BBC news
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 07-26-2006 9:28 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 113 of 300 (336346)
07-29-2006 1:23 PM
|
Reply to: Message 110 by lfen
07-29-2006 1:12 PM
|
|
Re: Evidence Hezbollah set up the UN post as a target
Israel has turned down a mediated ceasefire.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by lfen, posted 07-29-2006 1:12 PM | | lfen has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 121 of 300 (336430)
07-29-2006 6:48 PM
|
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
07-29-2006 6:34 PM
|
|
On a Ceasefire
Buz asserts:
quote:
No. Israel turned down a mediated ceasefire offer for Hezbollah's need to regroup and resupply for additional expansionist hostilities against Israel. Israel wisely declined, knowing full well that it would only serve to Hezbollah's advantage.
Yes, we expected you to make such an assertion, but that is all it is so far. The facts are: There has been a call for a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons and to allow for diplomatic discussions and the possibility of a diplomatic resolution. Israel turned down the offer. You can try to spin those facts anyway you want, however they are still the facts.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2006 6:34 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 125 of 300 (336443)
07-29-2006 7:09 PM
|
Reply to: Message 124 by Buzsaw
07-29-2006 7:05 PM
|
|
Re: On a Ceasefire
buz writes: The fact is that no matter what the reason, it seriously hinder's Israel's objective and serves Hezbollah's desperate need to resupply and regroup. At the height of intense warfare no army can simply stop and let the enemy catch up. That's like at the Super Bowl, the winning team must allow the loosers to rest and recoup before proceeding. Yet more assertions and a really silly analogy. The facts remain Buz. A humanitarian ceasefire was offered to allow time for the possibility of a diplomatic settlement. Israel turned it down. Facts are facts.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 07-29-2006 7:05 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 127 of 300 (336451)
07-29-2006 7:29 PM
|
Reply to: Message 126 by randman
07-29-2006 7:23 PM
|
|
Re: On a Ceasefire
The facts remain: A ceasefire has been offered to allow humanitarian relief as well as the possibility of a diplomatic resolution. Israel turned down the ceasefire.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 126 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:23 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 128 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:32 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 130 of 300 (336458)
07-29-2006 7:38 PM
|
Reply to: Message 128 by randman
07-29-2006 7:32 PM
|
|
Re: On a Ceasefire
Why what? The facts remain. A ceasefire was offered to allow humanitarian aid and to provide the possibility of a diplomatic settlement. Israel turned it down. Thems the facts. All else is speculation.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 128 by randman, posted 07-29-2006 7:32 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 138 by Faith, posted 07-29-2006 8:28 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 132 of 300 (336463)
07-29-2006 7:56 PM
|
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
07-29-2006 7:42 PM
|
|
Re: On a Ceasefire
Fact: About 600 Lebanese killed, about 200 of them children.
The UN says some 600 people - about a third of them children - have been killed by Israeli action in Lebanon. Fact: Fifty-one Israelis have been killed, at least 18 of them civilians.
A total of 51 Israelis, including at least 18 civilians, have been killed during the conflict. Fact: Israel turned down a three day ceasefire.
Earlier, Israel rejected a UN call for a three-day truce in southern Lebanon. Fact: Israel says fight may intensify.
Meanwhile, Israeli military sources have indicated that the fighting could intensify. Fact: Israel continues to target UN observers.
A separate strike wounded two UN monitors in their observation post, the UN said, days after four were killed. Fact: Israel continues to target routes of egress from the area.
An Israeli air strike has closed the main border crossing from Lebanon into Syria, witnesses and officials say. Source
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 131 by iano, posted 07-29-2006 7:42 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 135 by iano, posted 07-29-2006 8:11 PM | | jar has not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2