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Author Topic:   For the Christians here: Why do the heathens rage?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 79 (193211)
03-22-2005 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by PecosGeorge
03-21-2005 12:21 PM


Should I stay or should I go?
PG: I stay here because I like to chat with some of the people here. I realize that my views and beliefs are often ridiculed and questioned, but the arguments provide me with greater understanding of how I am able to present my point. What should I do?
Declare in a loud voice, "Attention! All EvC forum participants! You have failed to heed the warnings contained within scripture! You will be worse off than Sodom! I shake the dust off my feet and leave you to your hedonistic ways....you will die! I cannot help you!" What purpose would this serve?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-22-2005 03:12 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-21-2005 12:21 PM PecosGeorge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-22-2005 7:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 79 (193231)
03-22-2005 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by arachnophilia
03-22-2005 2:21 AM


Re: immaturity
Arach, while I respect your scholarly pursuits of knowing God, I might ask you whether or not God can indeed be "figured out."
I will say that studying the Bible sheds much insight on the Christian interpretation of God as well as the Jewish one. I think that beyond this, there actually is a human interaction with a living Spirit that is not defineable by any sort of logical means.
Still, I can appreciate your insights on the narrow mindedness (and hard heartedness, not to mention hard headedness) of the fundamentalist and literalist mindset. I don't know everything and, indeed, I sometimes feel as if I don't really know anything about God beyond my own personal experiences in communion with the Spirit.
All that I know is that I like the opportunity to communicate with you and with others here at EvC who are all very different. There are times when I am angry at some of you for the arguments that we all get involved with, but overall I believe that it is not time to shake the dust off of my sandels anytime soon.
Pecos, you will never become more skilled at evangelical apologetics by engaging people who agree with you. It is through engaging people who disagree with you that sharpens your effectiveness at communication.
When Jesus was talking to the Disciples, perhaps He was referring to them confronting other Jews. Was it not Paul that started the whole
heathen conversion thing? I could be wrong about this...feedback, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by arachnophilia, posted 03-22-2005 2:21 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by CK, posted 03-22-2005 5:11 AM Phat has replied
 Message 10 by arachnophilia, posted 03-22-2005 5:29 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 13 by PecosGeorge, posted 03-22-2005 7:47 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 16 by jar, posted 03-22-2005 9:19 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 79 (193233)
03-22-2005 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by CK
03-22-2005 5:11 AM


Re: immaturity
CharlesKnight writes:
What's the success rate of the christians on here? - I make it 0%.
I put it at 3% and rising....after all, you did respond to my post!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by CK, posted 03-22-2005 5:11 AM CK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 79 (193583)
03-23-2005 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by tsig
03-23-2005 1:43 AM


Die Hard Atheist meets Dyed in Wool Fundamentalist
DHA, when Christians speak of "trying" as an impossibility, they mean that it is impossible to try and be godlike. Human nature is simply not built that way, for them at least. They would prefer to believe that trusting God is opening the opportunity for His impartation and Spirit to raise us up and teach us to love all that is Holy. The problem...the clash of worldviews...is when we are taught by our church to abhor any appearances of evil. In context, what is mean't by Christian catchphrases such as "Be ye seperate..."
We try so hard to be perfect instead of admitting the impossibility of perfection. Ironically, we are trying to be as gods instead of letting God be God in us. Historically, the absolutists, although argueably morally true, became despots who stifled creativity and pronounced judgement on a world where free ideas and rational thought ultimately enabled the progression of humanity to the next level.
This is the ultimate paradox. Is the next level attained through surrender and impartation, or is it achieved through human effort and imagination? Is this a black/white issue or is a shade of gray appearing??
DHA writes:
Guess wer'e all just bits 'o bacon to Pecos George
Well, compared to an infinite and loving God, we ARE bits o bacon.
He did give us the means to think, however. God wants more from us than to be hopelessly imperfect and simple. How do we achieve our destiny?
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 03-23-2005 12:30 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 1:43 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 2:56 AM Phat has replied
 Message 65 by arachnophilia, posted 03-23-2005 10:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 79 (193591)
03-23-2005 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by tsig
03-23-2005 2:56 AM


Re: Die Hard Atheist meets Dyed in Wool Fundamentalist
The fundie would argue that God wants us to achieve perfection through the process of surrender to the Holy Spirit who then indwells us and raises us to perfection through communion.
The scientific and/or practical literalist would disagree, saying that surrender to an ideology is akin to checking ones brains in at the door and becoming a blind sheep.
The Bible guy would respond by saying that to truly see, one must become blind. To truly have revelation, one must find the truth through the acceptance of a personal relationship with the Truth Himself.
What would DHA say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 2:56 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 3:24 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 79 (193598)
03-23-2005 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by tsig
03-23-2005 3:24 AM


Re: Die Hard Atheist meets Dyed in Wool Fundamentalist
My point is that you may believe that perfection is obtained through individual initiative and effort while I may believe that perfection is obtained through surrender to God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 3:24 AM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 4:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 79 (193667)
03-23-2005 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by AdminJar
03-23-2005 9:25 AM


Re: Is this related to the topic OR
Jar writes:
are DHA and Phatt starting a thread of their own?
No. Well actually, DHA and I are showing how we can disagree without my feeling like the Heathen are attacking me. What do you think, Jar? Is this related to the topic?
Perfection is Christ.

Truth is stranger than fiction because we have made fiction to suit ourselves.
-- G.K. Chesterson
It ain't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
-- Will Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AdminJar, posted 03-23-2005 9:25 AM AdminJar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 3:50 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 79 (193717)
03-23-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by tsig
03-23-2005 3:50 PM


Re: Our story....our right to stay or go.
I wanted to hear Pecos George give us a few examples of the heathen raging. To be fair, I myself have occasionally felt that my views and beliefs were ridiculed. I will never take it personally, however, because debate is what we are all about, here. How boring it would be if everyone agreed with me..I could go start my own church and become a legend in my own mind.
All of us participate here on a voluntary basis. There are forum rules and guidelines for respect of an individual. As for ideas, however, none are sacred. Percy has framed it by stating that this is a science forum.
I stay here, knowing full well that my beliefs will always be challenged. Quite frankly, I never expect them to be widely accepted.
I am here because I represent my faith and belief. And because of Dans humor!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by tsig, posted 03-23-2005 3:50 PM tsig has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-24-2005 5:41 PM Phat has not replied

  
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