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Author Topic:   Help me find a hypocrite!
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 136 of 160 (416148)
08-14-2007 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Omnivorous
08-11-2007 12:30 AM


Re: Here's Another.
I once had friends who used CO2 to promote the growth of certain, ah...plants.

MMMMMM, wonder what that was.....

Here is a question (and it is not loaded taz), would certain plants benefit more from and increase of CO2 than others, and then create an imbalance in our eco system?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 08-11-2007 12:30 AM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 803 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 137 of 160 (416149)
08-14-2007 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 6:59 AM


Re: Hillary Clinton
um, nooo.

And think about this. If they are giving her money, maybe they support her position? If not, why give the money?

If Joe Blo is campaigning against mob influence, and he gets money from the mob, is he a part of the mob? No. Is it possible that the mob wants to influence him? Yes. But should he continue to campaign against mob influence, little good the money did there, right?

You give money to politicians for one of three reasons--you are trying to influence their vote, your support their position, or (only in the case of campaigns) you spread the money out between various candidates to hedge your bet.

But you know, the link you gave if about her getting money from a hi-hop music producer. Now tell me, does Timbaland support world-wide prostitution? What is his motivation for holding a fundraiser dinner for Sen. Clinton? Is he possibly writing music for a specific market?
Mind finding the answers to these questions? Because, quite frankly, you asserted that Sen. Clinton got money from someone who supports world wide prostitution:

That's on the heels of her making a plea to stop world wide prostitution. She gets her money from people who glorify the things she denounces.

So it's up to you to find out if Timbaland supports world-wide prostitution. If he even supports prostitution at all. It's up to you to find out what his reason for holding the fundraiser dinner was. Because all that is part of figuring out whether your evidence actually is evidence. So far, I only see a music producer who writes hip-hop and/or rap music with words I wouldn't use helping her raise money. I don't see the head of a brothel or world-wide prostitution ring giving her money (hint--you need to supply that evidence since you're making the assertion). And even so, that doesn't mean she's a part of it. It's the tricky business of motivation.

Your evidence, so far, ain't up to snuff.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 6:59 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 1:04 PM kuresu has responded

    
kuresu
Member (Idle past 803 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 138 of 160 (416151)
08-14-2007 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 7:01 AM


Re: Here's Another.
Here is a question (and it is not loaded taz), would certain plants benefit more from and increase of CO2 than others, and then create an imbalance in our eco system?

Trouble is, CO2 is not the limiting factor of plant growth. You need to eliminate other limiting factors (such as water and minerals available). It doesn't matter if there's ten times or one hundred times the CO2 needed if there's very little water.

I should add, in nature CO2 is not the limiting factor. In Omni's friend's case, where you can specifically eliminate limiting factors on growth, then pumping in CO2 will make sense (because in the kind of environment I'm assuming those plants were in little CO2, if any, is produced).

Not sure if this answered your question, but then, I'm not sure if your question makes sense yet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 7:01 AM riVeRraT has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 139 of 160 (416160)
08-14-2007 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 6:59 AM


Re: Hillary Clinton
quote:
If Hillary takes money to support her own agenda, from people who are well known to be involved in those things, doesn't that make her part of it?

No.

This has already been explained to you, back in message #86 by me:

But anyway, that's not the kind of hypocrisy we're talking about.

We are talking about a politician being caught engaging in activities they specifically try to pass legislation to ban or restrict, or that they particularly condemn.

Much more direct than "turning a blind eye", which was your example.

Clinton didn't engage in international prostitution.

...and also by Nuggin a couple of messages after that:

As near as I can tell, she opposed world wide prostitution (which I take to be forced prostitution, because I don't see her in Nevada trying to change their laws).

Meanwhile she takes money from people who are in the music industry who have some clients which include rap artists who have some songs which include the word "Hos".

I don't think I need to explain to you that there is a difference between "Pimps & Hos" of urban culture and young girls sold into sex slavery in Africa.

Are you actually saying that a US gansta rapper is [b]literally[/i] personally involved in the international sex slave trade?

Because he uses the word "hos" in his raps?

And that Clinton is literally personally involved in international prostitution because she took a contribution from a promoter who has many clients, one of which is a rapper who uses the word "hos"?

I guess that means that any politician who takes money from the American Family Institute that Ted Haggerd started must also be directly involved in gay prostitution and Methamhetamine use.

Edited by nator, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 6:59 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 1:07 PM nator has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 140 of 160 (416161)
08-14-2007 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Taz
08-14-2007 12:34 AM


quote:
One doesn't need to condemn outright adulterers and then commit adultery to be a hypocrit.

Well yes, actually, you do.

Not living up to one's own religious standards is not hypocrisy. Sinning or making mistakes is not hypocrisy.

quote:
Unless Jesse Jackson is preaching some kind of weird-ass christian form of marriage, the fact that he's a preacher that has a whole second family makes him a hypocrit.

If you are going to call this hypocrisy, then your definition is way too broad. Worse, it isn't interesting.

If we use your definition, than every single Christian preachers are hypocrites, since all of them sin.

That's not interesting. The hypocrisy defined in the OP of someone being caught engaging in the specific and particular activity that they specifically and particularly condemn is very interesting.

As far as I know, Jackson didn't ever make a special point of railing against the evils of adultery.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Taz, posted 08-14-2007 12:34 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 141 of 160 (416190)
08-14-2007 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by kuresu
08-14-2007 7:20 AM


Re: Hillary Clinton
Your evidence, so far, ain't up to snuff.

Of course it is. If Hillary Clintons morals matched her pocket book, then she wouldn't take money (money earned from the things she is against) from people like Timbaland. One of the links I provided shows where Timbalands head is at.

It is the same reasoning behind why big companies withdrew their advertising from the Don Imus show. They did not want to be associated with him, in fear that they would be accused of supporting what he said.

It's just not good politics, and I find it hypocritical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by kuresu, posted 08-14-2007 7:20 AM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by kuresu, posted 08-14-2007 4:00 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 142 of 160 (416191)
08-14-2007 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by nator
08-14-2007 8:29 AM


Re: Hillary Clinton
I guess that means that any politician who takes money from the American Family Institute that Ted Haggerd started must also be directly involved in gay prostitution and Methamhetamine use.

No....it means they support it then. Which if they publically denounced it, would make them hypocrites.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by nator, posted 08-14-2007 8:29 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by nator, posted 08-14-2007 11:19 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 803 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 143 of 160 (416212)
08-14-2007 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 1:04 PM


Re: Hillary Clinton
:laugh:

The one link you provided to show how Hillary was a hypocrite has lyrics written (or produced) by Timbaland.

Now then, if I write something like this:
Everything's going to burn, burn, burn
All the world's a joke, pass me the coke
Everything's gone to smoke cause of some f****r
So damnit ho, pass me the coke.

Obviously I'm for drug use, and since I used "ho", I must either be for prostitution and/or degrading of women, right? Wrong. You failed to answer the question of what TImbaland's motive is in giving money to Hillary. I'll give you a new question, might be easier. What's his motive for writing those lyrics? Could it possibly be just business?

You're evidence still ain't up to snuff. How does Timbaland support prostitution? You know, you're original claim that Hillary denounces world-wide prostitution and then accepting money from Timbaland means she's a hypocrite on the issue of prostitution. That would require Timbaland being in support of prostitution. Can you show that he is?

They did not want to be associated with him, in fear that they would be accused of supporting what he said.

:laugh: Oh, the irony. Hear your saying, in effect, that you can give money to a person without being connected to that person. But they're scared because people might make false conclusions--which is precisely what you're doing.

Oh, that and on one hand you're saying accepting money from someone means you agree with that person's position and on the other that just because you accept the money you don't support their position.

Hillary may damn well be a hypocrite, but not in this case.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 1:04 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 10:34 PM kuresu has responded

    
Taz
Member (Idle past 1581 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 144 of 160 (416230)
08-14-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 7:01 AM


Re: Here's Another.
riverrat writes:

Here is a question (and it is not loaded taz), would certain plants benefit more from and increase of CO2 than others, and then create an imbalance in our eco system?


Seeing how my name was mentioned, I might as well chip in.

Yes, certain plants do befit a lot more from the increase level of CO2 than others. But they're the wrong kinds of plants that we want to see taking over. For the last 2 decades, researchers have alarmingly been seeing increasing levels of pollens in the air with respect to increasing levels of CO2. This in turn is causing more and more cases of allergies and whatnot. These kinds of plants that are "benefiting" from increased levels of CO2 aren't what we really want to see taking over.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 7:01 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 10:36 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1581 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 145 of 160 (416231)
08-14-2007 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by nator
08-14-2007 8:44 AM


Schraf writes:

Not living up to one's own religious standards is not hypocrisy. Sinning or making mistakes is not hypocrisy.


There is a difference between just "sinning or making mistakes" and having an affair resulting in pregnancy, birth, and then try to sweep everything under the rug.

I had a very long conversation with a friend on this some years ago. He was convinced that the priests who molested little boys ought to be forgiven because "we all make stupid mistakes". While I agree that we all make stupid mistakes, or just plain ole mistakes, it takes planning to carry certain "sins" or immoral acts that I would argue against labeling them as mistakes.

Mistake: Sleeping with a woman without protection and impregnating her.

Not a mistake: Convince her to stay quiet, refuse to pay child support, deny it till the end when the press is all over, and have one of your pet organizations pay large amount of cash for her to move out of sight.

By your very broad definition of "mistake", it seems like anything and everything goes.

If we use your definition, than every single Christian preachers are hypocrites, since all of them sin.

Well, there's the stupid mistake that's a sin and there's the planning to commit the sin, more planning to perfect the original plan, carry out the plan, try to hush up the victims, have your superiors cover up the mess, move to a new area, and start all over again with a new plan.

That's not interesting. The hypocrisy defined in the OP of someone being caught engaging in the specific and particular activity that they specifically and particularly condemn is very interesting.

Interesting? I didn't say the issue was interesting. Probably why the press was only all over it for a few days before moving on. It still doesn't negate the fact that a supposed moral authority figure made a mistake (assuming it was a mistake) and then went on and made many more "mistakes" to cover up the original mistake.

As far as I know, Jackson didn't ever make a special point of railing against the evils of adultery.

Nope, which was why the press didn't make that big of a deal out of it. But he has spent decades preaching about christian "values". And like I said before, unless he's preaching some kind of backward polygomous christian doctrine, he very carefully carried out a conspiracy that tried to cover up the truth for many years. I'd hardly call that a mistake.

So, I see we have a dilemma. Are you saying that Jackson is preaching that adultery is not a sin? Does Jackson preach against the 7th commandment? does Jackson believe in the 10 commandments? Does he advocate the 10 commandments? If his informed actions contradict what he is preaching, he's a hypocrit.

By informed actions, I'm talking about actions that actually take efforts to carry out. I'm not talking about yelling out "Jesus Christ" after someone stepped on your foot or momentarily have "unclean thoughts" about someone else. I'm talking about years of lies and deception.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by nator, posted 08-14-2007 8:44 AM nator has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 146 of 160 (416249)
08-14-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by kuresu
08-14-2007 4:00 PM


Re: Hillary Clinton
Oh, the irony. Hear your saying, in effect, that you can give money to a person without being connected to that person.

No I am not saying that at all. You are connected.

Here is another instance:
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/hypocrit.htm


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by kuresu, posted 08-14-2007 4:00 PM kuresu has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by kuresu, posted 08-14-2007 11:24 PM riVeRraT has responded
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 147 of 160 (416250)
08-14-2007 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Taz
08-14-2007 7:40 PM


Re: Here's Another.
But they're the wrong kinds of plants that we want to see taking over. For the last 2 decades, researchers have alarmingly been seeing increasing levels of pollens in the air with respect to increasing levels of CO2. This in turn is causing more and more cases of allergies and whatnot. These kinds of plants that are "benefiting" from increased levels of CO2 aren't what we really want to see taking over.

Ok, it was a loaded question, because that was I was wondering.

SEE ITS THE END OF THE WORLD, REPENT NOW!!! j/k relax.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Taz, posted 08-14-2007 7:40 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 148 of 160 (416262)
08-14-2007 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 1:07 PM


Re: Hillary Clinton
I guess that means that any politician who takes money from the American Family Institute that Ted Haggerd started must also be directly involved in gay prostitution and Methamhetamine use.

quote:
No....it means they support it then.

You can't even follow your own argument.

The above is your own argument plugged into a different example, rat.

But anyway, it is almost as asinine to suggest that a politician that accepted money from Haggerd's AFI supports meth-fuled sex with gay prostitutes as it is for you to suggest that Clinton accepting contributions from a producer who has a client who uses the word "hos" in his raps is tantamount to her being directly involved in international prostitution.

You have used the expression "fuck you" on this board, rat.

Therefore, you must be an advocate of rape.

See, I can play this game too!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 1:07 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 11:41 PM nator has responded

    
kuresu
Member (Idle past 803 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 149 of 160 (416263)
08-14-2007 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by riVeRraT
08-14-2007 10:34 PM


Re: Hillary Clinton
This article was written by WorldNetDaily.com editor Joseph Farah. It was published Wednesday October 20, 1999 and is copyrighted by WND.

Mind finding something recent? And given that it's coming from worldnetdaily, I'm a little loath to accept this article at face value. Is she still buddying up to Ng Lap seng?

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any article that I can access that actually gives the evidence for Ng Lap seng involvement in organized crime, etc. So far I find assertions everywhere.

Please keep in mind, I'm not defending Hillary per se. I'm trying to get you to examine your shabby evidence. Your first link is to a music producer who has nothing to do with prostitution (except he uses the word 'ho' in his music), your second is to an article that is 8 years old. I cannot find anything linking Sen. Clinton and Lap seng after her time as first lady.

All your link means is that she once was a hypocrite (if the evidence of Lap seng's activities can be found).

Try again, rat.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 10:34 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by riVeRraT, posted 08-14-2007 11:34 PM kuresu has not yet responded

    
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 150 of 160 (416267)
08-14-2007 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by kuresu
08-14-2007 11:24 PM


Re: Hillary Clinton
Your first link is to a music producer who has nothing to do with prostitution (except he uses the word 'ho' in his music),

Listen, the portrayal of women in rap music is highly degrading, and goes against all that Hillary stands for.

Just because you feel it is ok to use the word "ho's" most rational people can see that it is not generally a good idea.

It's not poetry, and it's not deep. Many black people, and women are sick of it, and what it is teaching our youth. Hillary should not be tied to it, if she is going to be going around to women conventions, and be an outspoken liberal feminist. The lyrics is rap music is a valid concern by many these days. Not something to be overlooked.

Maybe she should be reading her own surveys that she instigated, and then be taking steps to do away with what is not useful, or artistic in life.

But she doesn't, because it's all about the money.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by kuresu, posted 08-14-2007 11:24 PM kuresu has not yet responded

  
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