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Author Topic:   Grammar
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 46 of 105 (46995)
07-23-2003 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by mike the wiz
07-22-2003 7:48 PM


Tell you what Mike, why don't you pick out an example of the data "creation scientists" say points to a "young age" and start a thread to discuss it ?

I suggest you choose one that is easy to understand so that we don't end up having to rely heavily on "duelling experts".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by mike the wiz, posted 07-22-2003 7:48 PM mike the wiz has taken no action

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 47 of 105 (47085)
07-23-2003 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by John
07-22-2003 11:38 PM


'having the misfortune of being a priest's daughter AND a whore, cursing and blaspheming while arguing...'

Ofcourse as I said earlier or in a similar post I take the whole bible as truth : Thou shalt not kill. Also 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. As I am a follower of Christ and he says we are all with sin , who then has the right to kill someone? because thats what the death penalty IS, killing someone!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by John, posted 07-22-2003 11:38 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 2:03 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 56 by John, posted 07-23-2003 9:02 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 3783 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 48 of 105 (47095)
07-23-2003 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by mike the wiz
07-23-2003 1:17 PM


quote:
Ofcourse as I said earlier or in a similar post I take the whole bible as truth : Thou shalt not kill. Also 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. As I am a follower of Christ and he says we are all with sin , who then has the right to kill someone? because thats what the death penalty IS, killing someone!


You're contradicting quite a few Bible verses when you say that. The death penalty is commanded by God for many, many crimes.

I'd also like to add that the staunchest supporters of the death penalty in the US seem to be Christians who believe the Old Testament Law, because Jesus did say that it would remain in effect even after his coming.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 1:17 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 8:02 PM zephyr has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 1403 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 49 of 105 (47128)
07-23-2003 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by mike the wiz
07-22-2003 8:41 PM


quote:
She usually plants seeds but doesn't watch the growth.

Seeds of thought only grow in fertile minds, Mike.

You are choosing for your mind to be a barren place.

[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-23-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by mike the wiz, posted 07-22-2003 8:41 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 8:05 PM nator has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 50 of 105 (47140)
07-23-2003 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by zephyr
07-23-2003 2:03 PM


'because Jesus did say that it would remain in effect even after his coming. '

But only a man without sin can cast the first stone, according to God no one is without sin therefore NO ONE can deliver the death penalty. Are you understanding what I am saying? therefore what the old testament says is right because Jesus fulfills the scripture and according to him (God with us) NO ONE can cast the first stone!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 2:03 PM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 8:23 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 51 of 105 (47141)
07-23-2003 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by nator
07-23-2003 6:27 PM


'You are choosing for your mind to be a barren place.'

Gee sorry moma, all I meant by that is you ask me questions then dissapear, and howw do you know my mind is barren ? have you been in my mind?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by nator, posted 07-23-2003 6:27 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by nator, posted 07-24-2003 9:43 PM mike the wiz has taken no action

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 3783 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 52 of 105 (47149)
07-23-2003 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by mike the wiz
07-23-2003 8:02 PM


Are you still claiming that all the Bible is true? Your logic is sound when you dismiss the death penalty based on what Jesus said, in my opinion, but you're avoiding the fact that it invalidates other portions of scripture commanding death for various offenses. How do you reconcile that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 8:02 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 8:28 PM zephyr has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 53 of 105 (47153)
07-23-2003 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by zephyr
07-23-2003 8:23 PM


'How do you reconcile that? '

maybe I cannot reconcile it to my own knowledge, however as you say Jesus usually can, it's not my logic it's Jesus', if he was God with us then why not listen to what he says, afterall he should know and he does.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 8:23 PM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 8:40 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 3783 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 54 of 105 (47157)
07-23-2003 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by mike the wiz
07-23-2003 8:28 PM


Don't hide behind human fallibility. If you're going to say the Bible is inerrant then your claim depends on the ability of God's people to read it and correctly understand it. It seems a more reasonable path to accept that some of it is, rather than historical and literal, figurative and poetic. A vast number of Christians think exactly that. I'm not telling you not to believe, I'm telling you that you have the right to use your brain to its full potential and think critically even when it comes to a text you consider sacred. If you're here to defend your beliefs, you should really take that to heart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 8:28 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 55 of 105 (47161)
07-23-2003 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by zephyr
07-23-2003 8:40 PM


But what is wrong with what Jesus said, believe me I believe God more than anything in life, but the fact is Jesus answered correctly with saying 'let he without sin cast the first stone' he revealed this to me when I read the old testament and when I was troubled when I heard of stoning to death, I can only admitt to the knowledge I have and I find Jesus always satisfies my questions, afterall I am only a man with an opinion, what do you want from me I've offered all the knowledge I have, I dont see the point in lying and pretending I have all the answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by zephyr, posted 07-23-2003 8:40 PM zephyr has taken no action

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 105 (47169)
07-23-2003 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by mike the wiz
07-23-2003 1:17 PM


Mike, all I did was read Leviticus. Since you 'take the whole bible as truth' you are in a bit of a quagmire. The Bible does say 'Thou shalt not kill.' It also provides many offenses for which death is to be the punishment. You can't have it both ways.

quote:
As I am a follower of Christ and he says we are all with sin , who then has the right to kill someone?

Apparently, whomever enforces the laws in Leviticus has this right. But according to Jesus no one does. hmmm.... both cannot be true.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 1:17 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 9:14 PM John has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 57 of 105 (47176)
07-23-2003 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by John
07-23-2003 9:02 PM


Well if we read the whole bible as 'a whole' and accept what Jesus says as I'm sure he knows , if those in leviticus were without sin?

are you concerning yourself too much with this? think about the meanin, please read and think what I mean by this:

Once in school a bully kicked me (this is true) so I told the teacher and she said 'kick him back Michael' and I didn't want to, I didn't because I thought it was wrong and preferred to (not kick-not kill) so the teacher then said to the bully , 'there you see it's wrong to kick' for some reason she had faith in me and was correct to teach this, I know it's a silly little example but if you think about it I'm sure you'll see what I am trying to say.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by John, posted 07-23-2003 9:02 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by John, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 105 (47199)
07-23-2003 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by mike the wiz
07-23-2003 9:14 PM


quote:
Well if we read the whole bible as 'a whole' and accept what Jesus says as I'm sure he knows , if those in leviticus were without sin?

Now you are postulating that the people in the OT were free of sin? Have you not also said that no one is without sin?

quote:
are you concerning yourself too much with this?

No. You are not concerning yourself enough with it. You are brushing aside a big web of contradictions.

quote:
Once in school a bully kicked me...

ummm.... God gave the Levitical laws because he knew the good people of the Bible would not follow them, thus teaching us that what he told us to do is the wrong thing and we really should be doing the opposite?

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 9:14 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by mike the wiz, posted 07-23-2003 10:13 PM John has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 252 days)
Posts: 4718
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 59 of 105 (47205)
07-23-2003 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by John
07-23-2003 10:02 PM


'Now you are postulating that the people in the OT were free of sin?'

no I'm saying they are with sin , can you read? no wonder people do not hear the truth!

'ummm.... God gave the Levitical laws because he knew the good people of the Bible would not follow them,'

so you did fail to understand as I thought you might, what I am saying is that a good person is incapable killing or hurting someone and since 'he without sin can cast the first stone' and only Jesus is without sin? do you get it? shall I interprate my own words for you even more?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by John, posted 07-23-2003 10:02 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Parasomnium, posted 07-24-2003 4:10 AM mike the wiz has taken no action
 Message 63 by John, posted 07-25-2003 10:28 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 60 of 105 (47227)
07-23-2003 11:12 PM


mike you and many People are Missing how Evolution works! A creature Mutates (like no 2 people are alike) Certain Mutations are able to adapt better Example: I am over weight however I don't eat alot. this would be great in a time when food is not plentiful. I am able to store what I take in better then you might. and Back along time ago I would be the one to survive. this is Basically how it works.

ok now in the case of Sharks NONE of the species are the same as the fossils you mention. they have Evolved!!!! but not as much as we did. Sharks are very well adapted to where they live so no Mutation is going to be favored over another. so they change very little. I suspect with our modern world the same will go with Humans now because we deal with health Problems we have (like my weight problem)


  
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