Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   9/11 Loose change 2nd edition
Codegate
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 84
From: The Great White North
Joined: 03-15-2006


Message 16 of 60 (318377)
06-06-2006 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by arachnophilia
06-06-2006 2:26 PM


"arachnophilia" writes:
but one of the cameras DID catch a plane, in the air, seconds before impact. it's just blurry, from it being in motion.
also, you really don't begin to understand just how bad the average security camera is until you've had to use one.
I've watched both of the parking lot cameras footage and I can't see anything that looks anything like a plane. This is another one of those cases where I just wish they would release all of the info that they had. They confiscated several cameras footage of the event from the area around the pentagon (a hotel, a gas station and the highway cameras come to mind) and they still have yet to acknowledge that they even took them.
I never have used a security camera, so I really don't know how likely it is that anything was captured or the quality that it would be. I just want to feel that information isn't being hidden from me in the case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 2:26 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 3:54 PM Codegate has replied
 Message 20 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 6:06 PM Codegate has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 17 of 60 (318381)
06-06-2006 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Codegate
06-06-2006 3:45 PM


What I don't understand about that explanation is how would you account for(in the planning stage) all the people who would see the pentagon just blow up rather than a plane hit it?
How would stop the totally random factor of someone in the wrong place at the wrong time with a camera?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Codegate, posted 06-06-2006 3:45 PM Codegate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Codegate, posted 06-06-2006 4:57 PM CK has replied
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2006 11:32 PM CK has not replied

  
Codegate
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 84
From: The Great White North
Joined: 03-15-2006


Message 18 of 60 (318395)
06-06-2006 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by CK
06-06-2006 3:54 PM


"ck" writes:
What I don't understand about that explanation is how would you account for(in the planning stage) all the people who would see the pentagon just blow up rather than a plane hit it?
Well, the conspiracy buffs out there would say that people will believe what they are told to believe. There will be a small number of people that clearly saw what truly occurred. These ones are the true problem and are either silenced via pressure or completely discredited somehow.
There will be a much larger group of people that just only marginally saw the event that can easily be 'programmed' by dis-information released by the authorities.
In the case of wrong place/wrong time camera you confiscate it immidiately and put out the appropriate spin and pressure to neutralize and discredit it.
Now, all that said, I really don't believe there is a massive conspiracy involved here. I think that events occurred, for the most part, how they are reported.
What is bothering me, is that the government/authorities are failing miserably at keeping the public informed. I can only hope that there is some top secret national security reason why they are not being more forthcoming with information. I'm really getting the impression that we are just being fed information and we are expected to believe it with no proof.
The fact that a group had to force the government to release that second camera footage using the law is indicative of somebody trying to hide something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 3:54 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 5:04 PM Codegate has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 19 of 60 (318398)
06-06-2006 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Codegate
06-06-2006 4:57 PM


quote:
Well, the conspiracy buffs out there would say that people will believe what they are told to believe. There will be a small number of people that clearly saw what truly occurred. These ones are the true problem and are either silenced via pressure or completely discredited somehow.
Yes but thinking about this from a planning viewpoint - you'd have to locate, silence and locate evidence from 100s of people before they can copy, distibute and upload the evidence to the internet and various other sources.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Codegate, posted 06-06-2006 4:57 PM Codegate has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 20 of 60 (318409)
06-06-2006 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Codegate
06-06-2006 3:45 PM


I've watched both of the parking lot cameras footage and I can't see anything that looks anything like a plane.
i saw something that looked like a plain. it was a large white streak -- exactly what a plain moving at several hundred miles an hour would look to a security camera.
This is another one of those cases where I just wish they would release all of the info that they had. They confiscated several cameras footage of the event from the area around the pentagon (a hotel, a gas station and the highway cameras come to mind) and they still have yet to acknowledge that they even took them.
so say the conspiracy theorists.
I never have used a security camera, so I really don't know how likely it is that anything was captured or the quality that it would be.
i have, and not very likely, and bad. they tend to run at only a few frames a second, if that. you'd be lucky to get one frame of something moving that fast.
I just want to feel that information isn't being hidden from me in the case.
people who subscribe to conspiracy theories often do so because they feel (irrationally) that information is being kept from them. but i think your portrayal of our government's information-gathering skills are a little exagerated.
besides. dc is a BIG city. while airplanes move a little fast for security cameras, they're quite slow enough for the human eye. how do you suppose the government shut up all the people who observed what "really" happened?
the pentagon is actually just across the highway from reagan international. lots of people, lots of airplanes -- and a flight control tower. shall we involve them, too?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Codegate, posted 06-06-2006 3:45 PM Codegate has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 21 of 60 (318447)
06-06-2006 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
06-05-2006 11:18 PM


Re: 911
If that's the truth, then who is really disrespecting the survivors? I share in the view that people should give pause before engaging in reckless speculation.
Have you seen the results from structual engineers? It is not speculation but fact. The tensile and compression strength of steel is measured all the time in labs and it's reduction in strength due to heat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 06-05-2006 11:18 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 06-06-2006 9:29 PM tsig has replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 22 of 60 (318448)
06-06-2006 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by riVeRraT
06-06-2006 6:51 AM


The amazing EVC
Maybe this guy who produced it is actually a terrorist himself.
That way lies paranoia lol
You know RR I never thougt I would agree with you more than the Frog on a subject.
EVC never ceases to amaze

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2006 6:51 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 60 (318449)
06-06-2006 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by tsig
06-06-2006 9:19 PM


Re: 911
Have you seen the results from structual engineers? It is not speculation but fact. The tensile and compression strength of steel is measured all the time in labs and it's reduction in strength due to heat.
I guess. That's not evidence that I have the capability to evaluate. The challenge has been made, though, that the fire couldn't have heated the steel to the temperatures assumed in the structural tests.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 9:19 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 9:55 PM crashfrog has replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 24 of 60 (318450)
06-06-2006 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
06-06-2006 7:07 AM


unknown site
What unknown site? Area 52?
The secret moonbase?
Using UFO technology stolen from tthe aliens after the failed negotiations in Roswell, the g'ment faked the whole 911 fiasco.
Why this is not obvius to the world is due to the mind control ray that cannot work on me because af a secret devie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 7:07 AM CK has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 25 of 60 (318457)
06-06-2006 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by crashfrog
06-06-2006 9:29 PM


ability
I guess. That's not evidence that I have the capability to evaluate. The challenge has been made, though, that the fire couldn't have heated the steel to the temperatures assumed in the structural tests.
Show me some evidence.
Planes hit the buildings the buildings collapse after the fire.
Why multipy compexities?
BTW I have a engeneering degree.
you might to study some strucual engineering before you say how it happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 06-06-2006 9:29 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 10:04 PM tsig has replied
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 06-06-2006 11:53 PM tsig has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 26 of 60 (318460)
06-06-2006 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
06-06-2006 7:07 AM


Re: 911
What unknown site? Area 52?
The secret moonbase?
you know, with the local news regarding people being held secretly by the us gov't without charges filed in various military prisons around the world... it's not that far fetched.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 06-06-2006 7:07 AM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 10:19 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 27 of 60 (318463)
06-06-2006 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by tsig
06-06-2006 9:55 PM


Re: ability
BTW I have a engeneering degree.
yeah? is that a bachelor's of science in engeneering, or a masters of science in engeneering? or a doctorate in engeneering?
normally i don't pick on spelling and grammar errors, because god knows i make them. but one thing's for damned certain, i can spell the name of my field of study. ok, well, "art" isn't very hard to spell... but you get the point.
you'll also notice that the op has 11 years experience fireproofing buildings.
Edited by arachnophilia, : typo (ironic!)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 9:55 PM tsig has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 10:30 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 28 of 60 (318468)
06-06-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by arachnophilia
06-06-2006 10:00 PM


yeh
you know, with the local news regarding people being held secretly by the us gov't without charges filed in various military prisons around the world... it's not that far fetched.
For the record I voted aginst Bush three times.
Still all the facts say that a loaded 747 can bring a modern building down.
Scary world we live in is it not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 10:00 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 10:43 PM tsig has not replied

  
tsig
Member (Idle past 2909 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 29 of 60 (318472)
06-06-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
06-06-2006 10:04 PM


tools
yeah? is that a bachelor's of science in engeneering, or a masters of science in engeneering? or a doctorate in engeneering?
normally i don't pick on spelling and grammar errors, because god knows i make them. but one thing's for damned certain, i can spell the name of my field of study. ok, well, "art" isn't very hard to spell... but you get the point.
you'll also notice that the op has 11 years experience fireproofing buildings.
No it is a mere BS in engineering technology, but it gave me the tools to evaluate this.
I will try to achieve your standards of perfection.
Edited by ts, : stupidity plus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 10:04 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 10:46 PM tsig has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 30 of 60 (318477)
06-06-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by tsig
06-06-2006 10:19 PM


Re: yeh
For the record I voted aginst Bush three times.
i only had the opportunity to vote against him once.
Still all the facts say that a loaded 747 can bring a modern building down.
yes, especially ones built like the twin towers were.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by tsig, posted 06-06-2006 10:19 PM tsig has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024