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Author Topic:   The problem with EVC
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 208 (313842)
05-20-2006 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Omnivorous
05-19-2006 8:15 PM


Re: "Contemptuous chuckles..."
I haven't had this much fun since Dark Shadows went off the air.
Yeah, I'm having fun too now.
I wonder what "research" they are talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Omnivorous, posted 05-19-2006 8:15 PM Omnivorous has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 197 of 208 (313845)
05-20-2006 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by iano
05-20-2006 8:59 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
quote:
I think this was the very sort of thing that Robin objected to. No salesman can point to his past performance as a guarantee that he will sell in the future. No soldier to the fact he dodged 100 bullets that he is likely to dodge another.
But no successful salesman is going to listen seriously to someone who tells him he's got it all wrong but has never made a sale in his life. A soldier is not going to take seriously someone sitting in an armchair telling him the best way to dodge bullets.
Edited by CK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by iano, posted 05-20-2006 8:59 AM iano has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 198 of 208 (313846)
05-20-2006 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by iano
05-20-2006 8:59 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
I think this was the very sort of thing that Robin objected to. No salesman can point to his past performance as a guarantee that he will sell in the future. No soldier to the fact he dodged 100 bullets that he is likely to dodge another.
And so the ignorance continues...
Tell me, when you need someone to service your bike, do you seek out someone with as little experience as possible with engineering to do your servicing? What, you do your servicing yourself? Why? Because you are so shit at engineering it seems the best way forward?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by iano, posted 05-20-2006 8:59 AM iano has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 199 of 208 (313849)
05-20-2006 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
05-20-2006 2:59 AM


Re: oh good grief
quote:
Robin was talking about specific instances of not being answered when he asked again and again for an answer.
He is answered. Extremely often.
He just doesn't like the answers he gets.
And let us not forget that he has frequently engaged in the same behavior.
He never did attempt to answer the formal logic puzzle that I posed. You quite gamely gave it a shot, and that is to your credit. All robin did at that point was start to abuse scientific research.
quote:
And characterizing his complaint as being about hurt feelings is similarly off base.
Considering he has admitted he was angry when he wrote his OP, and my own observation that he has continued in a rather sullen, petulant tone for some time, I'd say that my characterization was fairly apt.
quote:
It's about not being able to have a real conversation. That's the problem with the snobbery and the contemptuous chuckling.
Boo hoo.
Heat, kitchen, etc.
quote:
Oh it's annoying and stupid too, but mainly it prevents thinking about serious questions.
Whining about your perceived grevious persecution on a public internet debate forum prevents thinking about serious questions, too.
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 05-20-2006 2:59 AM Faith has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 208 (313862)
05-20-2006 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by cavediver
05-20-2006 8:32 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
You may want to think that active theoretical research is no more valuable than the man-on-the-street's musings, but shall we compare track-records over the past century?
Would the research be to test the hypothesis that God is "outside our timeline"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 8:32 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:48 AM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 203 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 10:55 AM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 201 of 208 (313864)
05-20-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by robinrohan
05-20-2006 10:44 AM


How about some research?
WRT the opening post, what if the universe was created by a council of power-limited gods that worked together?
Maybe this council was doing something else altogether and one of the gods farted and out came our universe, a denied accident.
Got any research going on this idea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:44 AM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 202 of 208 (313865)
05-20-2006 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by nator
05-19-2006 10:26 PM


Re: FSM
I believe it is likely that you only think the FSM is a "trivial" comparison because you are harboring residual cultural reverence for the word "God".
Do you have any evidence to back that up? Any research?
In point of fact, the problem I have with it is a logical problem. Oh, excuse me, I'm not supposed to say "logical," because I don't understand logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by nator, posted 05-19-2006 10:26 PM nator has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 203 of 208 (313867)
05-20-2006 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by robinrohan
05-20-2006 10:44 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
Robin, I haven't the heart to insult you, tempting as it is
But neither have I the patience to discuss anything with you, especially given the mood you are in. If you have any serious questions based on anything I said in your thread, then I'll give them a shot...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:44 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:59 AM cavediver has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 208 (313872)
05-20-2006 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by cavediver
05-20-2006 10:55 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
If you have any serious questions based on anything I said in your thread, then I'll give them a shot...
Can't we make a distinction here between science and philosophy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 10:55 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 11:16 AM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 206 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 11:17 AM robinrohan has not replied
 Message 207 by cavediver, posted 05-20-2006 11:17 AM robinrohan has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 205 of 208 (313877)
05-20-2006 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
05-20-2006 10:59 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
Can't we make a distinction here between science and philosophy?
I can't, no. Because I find my physics impinges on what I once thought was pure philosophy and/or theology.
If we take the idea of God that you have been using: creator, ultimate being, etc, then it would hardly be sensible to consider that entity as constrained by internal properties of the creation. At least, that is an assumption I am making.
When General Relativity tells me that time is merely an internal property of the universe, it leaves me with little choice than to consider this God as outside/unbound by what we call time.
Physics places lower limits on this creator God's attributes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:59 AM robinrohan has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 206 of 208 (313878)
05-20-2006 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
05-20-2006 10:59 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
Multiple message deleted
Edited by cavediver, : Multiple message deleted

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:59 AM robinrohan has not replied

cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 207 of 208 (313879)
05-20-2006 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
05-20-2006 10:59 AM


Re: Peer: through a glass darkly
Multiple message deleted
Edited by cavediver, : Multiple message deleted

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 05-20-2006 10:59 AM robinrohan has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 208 of 208 (313895)
05-20-2006 12:28 PM


Okay, now I understand where Robin is coming from in this thread, which is why I'm closing it.
Robin, discussion can be on any of the wide variety of creation/evolution topics, but not about the poor treatment you receive. Such things are the province of moderation, not of discussion.
If you believe you're the victim of violations of the Forum Guidelines then please bring it to the attention of the moderators. You can post to General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consequtive Consecution Sequel, or you can email me or one of the other moderators. Please provide specific information and links to messages.
I've spent just a very few minutes poking around at a few of your messages and I couldn't find anything that was a example of the problem. But just above, Cavediver makes some indirect references to comments about his area of expertise, maybe they were yours, I'm not sure, and they seem the equivalent of me in a religious discussion arguing that Easter was the day Jesus saw his shadow - in other words, pretty dumb.
Those who have the courage to argue about things they know little about must accept that uninformed ideas will be given short shrift. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but all opinions are not entitled to respect.
Closing this one down.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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