Linguistic Pet Peeves

Rrhain writes:

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As I said: "Fewer" is plural. "Calories" is plural. Therefore, you use "fewer." "Fat" is singular, therefore you use "less."

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I've never thought of it that way, but I would have considered the term 'fat' to be one of mass and thus not precisely singular or plural. I don't remember the exact rule, but I always thought 'less' was to be used with terms of mass and 'fewer' with terms of quantity.There are also certain idiomatic uses of 'less than' where the usual rule doesn't apply. Thus 'less than ten dollars' or 'less than five miles' would be correct, I think.

I'm sometimes bothered by the misuse of the words 'up' and 'down' when used to indicate direction. If you find yourself in Miami, you would not drive down to New York, you would instead drive up. 'Up' should be used for north and 'down' for south. I believe the correct word is 'over' for east or west.Here are some others I hear so frequently that I sometimes make these mistakes myself:Let's bring Junior with us.I'm not as knowledgeable as Rrhain so I can't cite you the exact rule, but in this case 'bring' is used where 'take' should be.Where are you at?Grrrrrrrrr!!!She's older than me.Instead of 'me' you should use 'I'. In order to keep from sounding pedantic you can add the word 'am', as in "She's older than I am".I believe some credit is owed to Wal*Mart for helping to teach the community the correct form "May I help you?". I don't often go shopping, but when I do I've noticed that I'm more likely to hear that phrase than I am to hear "Can I help you?", which was much more common a few years ago. I think this is because Wal*Mart has the correct form emblazoned on its employees' uniforms.On the downside (isn't there always a downside where Wal*Mart is concerned?) they contribute to the misuse of 'less' and 'fewer' by posting signs at cash registers reading "10 items or less".

Rrhain responds to me:

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There are also certain idiomatic uses of 'less than' where the usual rule doesn't apply. Thus 'less than ten dollars' or 'less than five miles' would be correct, I think.

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Nope..."fewer than ten dollars" and "fewer than five miles." Those things are plural and require the use of "fewer." I agree that quite a lot of people use "less," but they're wrong. Everything in that utterance is plural, so you need to use "fewer."

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Not according to the Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Your usage is preferred, but this brief article makes clear that my usage is not necessarily incorrect.

Loudmouth writes:

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...up and down are colloquial and not meant to accurately convey direction anyway.

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According to the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, with a few exceptions 'down' can be used for 'south' but not for 'north'. Therefore, if you were in my city (Vicksburg MS) and said you were going to drive down to Memphis, you would be incorrect.Of course 'up' and 'down' also refer to elevation, I never said they didn't. But since neither Vicksburg nor Memphis are in the mountains that point is moot in this usage.

MrHambre writes:

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My New England linguistic pet peeves include the nonsense term irregardless, the oxymoronic dismissal same difference, and the use of wicked to mean "extremely."

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I can't remember ever having heard that use of 'wicked' but your other two examples are not at all unique to New England. I hear those frequently here in the South.

Loudmouth writes:

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"Up and Down" are inherently vague and need to be understood in a local context, that's all.

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I can agree with that.

The weak or silent 'R' is another quirk that isn't unique to New England. It's also common in the South and in England. In the South, it generally reflects an aristocratic but rural background on the part of the speaker.

Rrhain responds to me:

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So whether "bring" or "take" is right in this instance is dependent upon the point of view. Are you going away or going toward?

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Yep, now I see your point. My example wasn't a good one and I'm having a devil of a time trying to remember the relevant rule, so I'll try again:Let's bring Junior to the park.Thus the point of reference is now the park and the construction makes obvious that we are not ourselves currently at the park. We must therefore take, not bring, Junior with us, no?If we change this to use a transitive as in your cole slaw example (I guess that would be "We'll bring Junior to the park") it still sounds wrong.

randylsu writes:

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...we also have some odd idioms that are literal translations from the French equivalent. One of these results in our "getting down" (from descendre) from a car instead of "getting out". We also "save" dishes instead of putting them away, and New Orleanians "make" groceries instead of shopping for them.

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Yes, and the one that sticks in my memory is "come see" instead of "come here". I lived down there for a couple years back in the 70s and I don't think I ever heard anyone say "come here".

crashfrog writes:

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If you wanted to go to the park, or were going anyway, then you "bring Junior." If you don't want to go to the park, or have no reason to go except to convey Junior there, then you "take Junior."

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So your saying it's a question of motive and not point of reference? You may be right.

randylsu writes:

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Actually that brings up a pet peave of mine, although it may be an unfounded one; "used of" instead of "used to" to mean "accustomed to." Is that prevalent in other regions or is it only a Southern thing?

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Not sure whether it's unique to the South, but I've heard it said that way. I think it comes from a slur of "used to", which if not pronounced correctly can come out as "used ta" or "used 'a", and from that could turn into "used of". Irritating, I agree.

Rrhain writes:

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Um, as I directly said: It's a pet peeve.

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No, you didn't. You said it was wrong. Here's the quote:

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Nope..."fewer than ten dollars" and "fewer than five miles." Those things are plural and require the use of "fewer." I agree that quite a lot of people use "less," but they're wrong.

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You're technically correct, Rrhain, but irrespective of anything you might have said earlier, in the post I answered you said that I was wrong. At worst I was only citing bad form. I said I thought the 'less than' usage was idiomatic and it is.You seem to know much more about proper word usage than I do, so I'd appreciate a comment on the following (apologies if any of this has been mentioned before):Today it seems to be quite acceptable to use the word 'impact' as a verb, though the usage makes me cringe. It sounds incorrect, but when I consider that the word 'contact' went through a similar noun-to-verb transition decades ago I have to wonder if I'm being too picky. You'd probably have a difficult time finding anyone who would disapprove of a sentence like:You must contact the authorities.The word 'transition' is increasingly being used as a verb today. Perhaps it's because of the 'ion' ending, but for whatever reason this usage makes my skin crawl.There was a brief period in the late 90s when the word 'office' was threatening to jump into the verb catagory. Thank God it doesn't seem to have caught on.

Thanks for the link. It seems to say that using 'impact' as a verb is incorrect but not unprecedented. It compared the usage to 'contact' as I did. It doesn't really settle the matter, though, since the Usage Panel overwhelmingly disapproves of this verb form while the article itself seems to endorse it.I suppose any Latin-derived noun ending in '-act' is subject to use as a verb. 'Contract' and 'compact' would be other examples.

Rrhain writes me:

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This has me scratching my head again wondering why you thought it was never a verb.

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Because of what I was taught in my writing class in college. Perhaps I was taught wrong, but I am heartened to see that the Usage Panel of the AH Book of English Usage linked above agrees with me.

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This is akin to my peeve about "orientate."

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I've heard that one, too, and its past tense 'orientated'. Good God! It's almost like a pig-latinized form.