Linguistic Pet Peeves

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I'm sometimes bothered by the misuse of the words 'up' and 'down' when used to indicate direction. If you find yourself in Miami, you would not drive down to New York, you would instead drive up. 'Up' should be used for north and 'down' for south. I believe the correct word is 'over' for east or west.

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You flatlanders crack me up. In areas with moutains, "up" and "down" have to do with elevation. For instance, McCall, Idaho is "up" from Boise not because it is North of Boise but because it is at a higher elevation. Also, given that there are a lot of fishermen and kayakers, up and down also reflect river directions. That, and up and down are colloquial and not meant to accurately convey direction anyway.

I hate it when people use that term. It's a substitute for much or a great deal, and a poor one. A lot is where one parks a car, gets buried, builds a house, etc. Yeek! English is such a sweet language, it should be used with reverence/reference.

Rrhain responds to me:

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There are also certain idiomatic uses of 'less than' where the usual rule doesn't apply. Thus 'less than ten dollars' or 'less than five miles' would be correct, I think.

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Nope..."fewer than ten dollars" and "fewer than five miles." Those things are plural and require the use of "fewer." I agree that quite a lot of people use "less," but they're wrong. Everything in that utterance is plural, so you need to use "fewer."

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Not according to the Columbia Guide to Standard American English. Your usage is preferred, but this brief article makes clear that my usage is not necessarily incorrect.

Loudmouth writes:

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...up and down are colloquial and not meant to accurately convey direction anyway.

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According to the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, with a few exceptions 'down' can be used for 'south' but not for 'north'. Therefore, if you were in my city (Vicksburg MS) and said you were going to drive down to Memphis, you would be incorrect.Of course 'up' and 'down' also refer to elevation, I never said they didn't. But since neither Vicksburg nor Memphis are in the mountains that point is moot in this usage.

Not to be confused with "I carried Grandma over to Charlotte the other day," meaning "I drove the car."

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Also, given that there are a lot of fishermen and kayakers, up and down also reflect river directions.

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Here in New England, we travel "down to Maine" as a holdover from the days of windborne travel. PC busybodies claiming to discern a dehumanizing contempt for the rural poor can stuff it.My New England linguistic pet peeves include the nonsense term irregardless, the oxymoronic dismissal same difference, and the use of wicked to mean "extremely." That last one, I'll wager, is a legacy of the Salem Witch Trials.regards,
Esteban Hambre

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Of course 'up' and 'down' also refer to elevation, I never said they didn't. But since neither Vicksburg nor Memphis are in the mountains that point is moot in this usage.

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I was just poking fun. Local dialects and local usages are bound to occur. For instance, the example of "down to Maine" is a good illustration. "Up and Down" are inherently vague and need to be understood in a local context, that's all.

Well, if you're going to bring New England-specific linguistic pet peeves into it, we might as well discuss the seemingly random re-zoning of the letter "R".For example: Let's get in the cah and go to Pawrtucket.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

MrHambre, your "Don't you know nothing?" makes me suspect you're joking, but the pointe somehow eludes me. English isn't my native language, so, by all means, feel free to instruct me.

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"It's amazing what you can learn from DNA." - Desdamona.

MrHambre writes:

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My New England linguistic pet peeves include the nonsense term irregardless, the oxymoronic dismissal same difference, and the use of wicked to mean "extremely."

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I can't remember ever having heard that use of 'wicked' but your other two examples are not at all unique to New England. I hear those frequently here in the South.

Loudmouth writes:

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"Up and Down" are inherently vague and need to be understood in a local context, that's all.

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I can agree with that.

The weak or silent 'R' is another quirk that isn't unique to New England. It's also common in the South and in England. In the South, it generally reflects an aristocratic but rural background on the part of the speaker.

Para,You're supposed to put the subject first in English. Thus, your post should have read you're keeping us in the dark instead of we're kept in the dark.Dan,Indeed R is the rogue consonant in New England. From the sentence Carla will dump Dan for being a fuckwit, the contracted form Carla'll makes the R from the first syllable move to the end of the second, and the word comes out sounding like CAH-luh-rull as if spelled "Calar'll." Just a reminder to stay away from the Northeast. And Dan, you know your hoboes: isn't that Nomar sleeping off a two-day bender in that alleyway outside your window?regards,
Esteban HambreThis message has been edited by MrHambre, 10-27-2004 03:56 PM

You guys have hit on many of my wife's & my favorites in this thread already, but the up/down discussion gave me a reason to jump in.I'm originally from Cajun country (SW Louisiana), and in addition to mixing in lots of French words when it's convenient, we also have some odd idioms that are literal translations from the French equivalent. One of these results in our "getting down" (from descendre) from a car instead of "getting out". We also "save" dishes instead of putting them away, and New Orleanians "make" groceries instead of shopping for them.I know these aren't really pet peeves, but I figured this would keep you from freaking out the next time you hear one of these.WOW, I didn't realize this was my first post. I think I've started some others and never finished them. My bad.

Welcome Randy. Don't be shy any more; jump in any time you feel like it.It is interesting the bit of color that such little linguistic "fossils" can add.