I do not start with the conclusion that god is real and then logically challenge that position. I have encountered no evidence from which I could infer that the reality of god is a valid point to start from.
I did not 'become an atheist' any more than I became somebody who does not believe in Father Christmas.
Re: A Legend in our minds or a Reality outside them?
But is not hat the point? You start from a position that there is a god. Growing up you must have had information telling you that god is real. You chose on the balance of that information to move from the default condition of no belief in god to the position of belief in god.
That is why I find the premise here to be flawed. We are not born with a belief in gods. There are no letter in fire across the sky that would provide evidence of god.
If the most people on the planet were killed and a new culture arose would the exact inerant words of the bible become known anew? Of course not.
People believe in god because they get taught about it. You could natuaralistically rediscover the LOTs but you could not do that for 10 commandments.
By 'see' I assumed you meant sense, detect or have some way of knowing that something has registered on our perceptual system that would allows us to recognise the fact that there is something there to acknowledge.
However, we can see gravity in the way it bends light around mass. In a similar way that we can see a plank of wood in the way it reflects light back at us.
We can not see gravity. We cannot see space-time,we cannot see "energy"--whatever that is. We cannot see "curved space" (another word for gravity, I hear). We cannot see thoughts.
Of course we can see energy. Light I contend counts as energy. We only 'see' via the gift of light interacting with matter and energy.
'Seeing' is a form of perception that our biology has evolved. Things that we cannot see with our biological apparatus can be detected via the gift of technology. I can't detect radio spectrum like I can the visible spectrum but technology tells me it's there.
I can't 'sse' alpha radiation but a dose meter can detect it.
I cant't 'see' thoughts but the electrical impulses of nerves can be detected by technology or ampullae of Lorenzini in some fish.
We can't detect god at all. It may as well not be there.
Give me one shred of evidence for the existance of god and before this forum I will renounce my stance on the the xian god.
The burden of proof is on you.
The default position of every human being on this planet is of having no (zero) knowledge about any god.
This position is changed via the gift of information gained as one grows up.
One then makes a value judgement as the verasity of said information.
One either changes from the default position of not believing in any god to: (based on the percieved verasity of evidence) believing in a god, or (based on the percieved verastiy of evidence) not changing from the default position.
People don't get converted without having met missionaries.
Yes, but the original point was about seeing, not detecting. Dan says, I look around, don't see Him, and therefore He doesn't exist. He didn't saying anything about "detecting" Him. His answer was frivolous.
I believe however Dan may have meant 'detect' in the wider sense.