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Author Topic:   Iraq needed Saddam?
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 61 of 92 (869999)
01-10-2020 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Thugpreacha
01-10-2020 2:57 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Learn about Oligarchy.

Look at the evidence. What does the evidence show?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-10-2020 2:57 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-10-2020 3:30 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13520
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 62 of 92 (870001)
01-10-2020 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
01-10-2020 3:27 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Internet writes:

One of the most well-known examples of an oligarchy in history is the Soviet Union. Today, this form of government is still practiced in some nations, including: Russia. China.


quote:
Oligarchy--
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.
"the ruling oligarchy of military men around the president"
a country governed by an oligarchy.
"the English aristocratic oligarchy of the 19th century"
government by an oligarchy.

Let me guess. It has always been that way. There is nothing new under the sun.

Trumps supporters are thus clueless about what genie they let out of the bottle.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 01-10-2020 3:27 PM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 63 of 92 (870002)
01-10-2020 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Thugpreacha
01-10-2020 3:24 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Phat writes:

Western powers may argue that a lot of the infrastructure of the oilfields was installed by our contractors with our money. Thus, that oil is not nor ever should be simply Irans or iraqs to do with what they want. What if they decided to sell only to China, for example? We have a stake in that resource and feel we always should, I think.

Stop and think Phat. Really.

Have companies from other nations invested in the US? So if what you claim about Iran and Iraq's resources applies does that mean China should have similar access to US resources?

And again, look at history. Was there an Imperial Power that had investments in Idia as an example and felt they had a similar stake in the wealth of India?

Also wasn't there an Imperial Power that decided to simply take the resources it needed when the US placed an embargoes on things it needed like scrap iron and oil?

What does the evidence show Phat.

I understand you don't want to have to study history and reality but guess what? ...

Edited by jar, : left applies out


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-10-2020 3:24 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-10-2020 4:11 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13520
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 64 of 92 (870003)
01-10-2020 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
01-10-2020 3:36 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
I understand you don't want to have to study history and reality but guess what? ...
I do my fair share.
How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor

I also know how our military has essentially surrounded China---the one nation most likely to be our major rival in the next 30 years. They are no pushover...we likely would lose such a war...which calls into question trumps Trade War strategies...unless we see it as an inevitable conflict anyway.

US-China trade war backfires as domestic firms suffer
Americans have paid an extra $46 billion in tariffs since the start of the China trade war, according to new data

The Coming War On China

quote:
When the United States, the world’s biggest military power, decided that China, the second largest economic power, was a threat to its imperial dominance, two-thirds of US naval forces were transferred to Asia and the Pacific. This was the ‘pivot to Asia', announced by President Barack Obama in 2011. China, which in the space of a generation had risen from the chaos of Mao Zedong's ‘Cultural Revolution’ to an economic prosperity that has seen more than 500 million people lifted out of poverty, was suddenly the United States's new enemy.

The build-up of naval forces would reinforce the US's already overwhelmingly superior military position in the region. Seldom referred to in the Western media, 400 American bases surround China with ships, missiles and troops, in an arc that extends from Australia north through the Pacific to Japan, Korea and across Eurasia to Afghanistan and India.

The Coming War on China is John Pilger's most recent film – his 60th documentary and arguably his most prescient. Completed in the month Donald Trump was elected US President, the film investigates the manufacture of a ‘threat’ and the beckoning of a nuclear confrontation.

The film is marked in chapters. Chapter 1 is set in the remote Marshall Islands, in the Pacific, which the United States took over as a United Nations ‘trust territory’ in 1945 with an obligation to ‘protect the population’s health and wellbeing’. From 1946 to 1958, the US exploded the equivalent of one Hiroshima bomb every day in the islands, contaminating its people and environment.

Filming on irradiated Bikini Atoll, which cannot be safely inhabited today, perhaps ever, Pilger describes the testing in 1954 of the world's first hydrogen bomb, codenamed Bravo, which vaporised an entire island, leaving a dark chasm a mile wide in Bikini's beautiful lagoon. The inhabitants had been moved to a nearby atoll, Rongelap, where the ‘unexpected’ fallout endowed them with multiple cancers.

Declassified documents describe a secret programme originally designed to test the effects of radiation on mice and used in the Marshall Islands on human beings. A US Atomic Energy official of the time describes the island of Rongelap as ‘by far the most contaminated place on Earth’.

The human guinea pigs were regularly monitored and underwent scientific examination. Many suffered thyroid cancer, deformities appeared in babies and countless survivors of the original blast died from radiation poisoning. A claims tribunal was set up and quickly ran out of money. The most moving interviews in the film are with islanders, mostly elderly women, who have survived, precariously, in poverty.

Today, the largest of the Marshall Islands, Kwajalein, is home to one of the United States’s most secretive bases, a missile launch pad designed as a ‘stepping stone to Asia and beyond’ and aimed at China.

Chapter 2 describes China's remarkable rise. Using rare archive film, Pilger describes ‘the century of humiliation’, when the Chinese were depicted as the ‘yellow peril’ in the West and racial stereotypes were a staple of Hollywood. Author James Bradley describes the opium trade and the colonisation by Britain and the other imperial powers. ‘The American industrial revolution was funded by huge pools of money… from illegal drugs in the biggest market in the world, China,’ he says.

The 1949 Communist revolution marked the end of foreign exploitation but also, ironically, the beginning of a China that almost no ‘expert’ in the West had predicted. ‘Today,’ says Pilger, standing against the ultra-modern skyline of Shanghai, ‘China has matched America at its own great game of capitalism – and that is unforgivable.’

Four hundred miles away, on the Japanese island of Okinawa, 32 American military installations form the front line of a coming war with China. Fumiko Shimabukuro, aged 87, is one of the leaders of a non-violent resistance challenging Washington’s ‘pivot to Asia’. They want the bases closed and point to a warning from the past. In 1962, during the Cuban missile crisis, American nuclear missiles were ordered to be launched at China, Russia and North Korea by an officer who, it appears, had lost his mind. Only luck – and the vigilance of another officer – allowed his moment of madness to be countermanded. In a memorable sequence, one of the 1962 missile crew describes how the world was almost destroyed ‘by mistake’.

In 2015, Pilger reports, the US Navy and its regional allies, including Australia, rehearsed a blockade that would cut China’s lifelines of oil, trade and raw materials. Today, President Trump is waging a trade war against China, where the United States's biggest companies, such as Apple, are based: the source of a trade deficit for which China is cast, in Trump's world, as the ‘bad guy’. In the meantime, China has built military airstrips in the disputed Spratly Islands, in the South China Sea, and is reported to have placed its nuclear missiles on ‘high alert’.

The Coming War on China was broadcast on ITV in the UK and SBS in Australia, and seen in many other countries, including China, where a pirated version was shown to possibly its biggest audience. ‘It's not the fairest way to distribute a film,’ said Pilger, ‘but I was delighted. The true story of China and America needs to be told, especially in Australia, where, fuelled by America, an anti-China propaganda campaign seems to be inviting a military reaction.’


But this is off-topic. Let's get back to Iraq, Iran, and the Islamic sphere. China only has relevance due to being an ally of Iran.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : refocus


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 01-10-2020 3:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 01-10-2020 5:27 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 65 of 92 (870006)
01-10-2020 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Thugpreacha
01-10-2020 4:11 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Phat writes:

China only has relevance due to being an ally of Iran.

You claimed that the US had some right to the Middle Eastern Oil because we invested in the original oil fields.

China has invested throughout our industry, resources and real estate.

By your reasoning China should have the same rights to our production and natural resources that you assert we have in the Middle Eastern natural resources.

The issue is that the US has built a civilization based on taking resources from everyone else; the Iranians, the Nicaraguans, the Iraqis, the Colombians, the Native Americans, ... the list is near endless.

Is there any reason that the rest of the world should continue to let us take their resources?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-10-2020 4:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-11-2020 3:04 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13520
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 66 of 92 (870029)
01-11-2020 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by jar
01-10-2020 5:27 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
jar writes:

The issue is that the US has built a civilization based on taking resources from everyone else; the Iranians, the Nicaraguans, the Iraqis, the Colombians, the Native Americans, ... the list is near endless.

Is there any reason that the rest of the world should continue to let us take their resources?

If they suddenly stopped, would it push a large portion of us into poverty? If so, count on a war. It is irrelevant what we did years ago. All that counts is how our standard of living is now. And if such a war occurred, we may lose it but at least we would go down swinging. For many years, we have helped many people. If they betray us, everyone will suffer.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 01-10-2020 5:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 5:35 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 68 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:16 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34322
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 67 of 92 (870035)
01-11-2020 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Thugpreacha
01-11-2020 3:04 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
The US does NOT take resources from anybody, that's a malicious falsehood. Fortunately we have Trump now who has made us independent of foreign oil so we no longer have to BUY it from our enemies.

And just to answer this false title: We should worry about "annoying" an evil ideology that kills because it thinks we dserve to be dead according to its dictates and for no other reason? Of course they're "annoyed" by us, at least when we have a decent leader like Trump who doesn't cave in to their evil designs.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-11-2020 3:04 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 68 of 92 (870039)
01-11-2020 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Thugpreacha
01-11-2020 3:04 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Phat writes:

If they suddenly stopped, would it push a large portion of us into poverty?

That depends on just how stupid we continue to be.

There is only one reason that Iran does not sell us oil and that is because we decided to place sanctions on Iranian Oil.

As long as the US continues to act like the stupid bullies we have been then yes, we will suffer.

And going down swinging is just another example of utter stupidity.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-11-2020 3:04 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 7:27 AM jar has responded
 Message 74 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-11-2020 4:34 PM jar has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2846
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 69 of 92 (870040)
01-11-2020 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
01-11-2020 5:35 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
So Exxon is not drilling the largest share of the largest oil field in iraq?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 5:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34322
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 92 (870041)
01-11-2020 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
01-11-2020 7:16 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Sanctions are one way we have of preventing their murdering our people. Taking out their terrorist leader is another, which is reserved for the most serious offenses. We are stupid when we give in to evil, but Trump is righting that wrong we've committed in the past. We are in the right, we are not the aggressors, we are the good guys, and we have to stay strong so the evil guys won't get the upper hand. We aren't going down. For the first time in a long time we've got a leader who works for our best interests and knows how to do it even in the teeth of the most malicious demeaning false propaganda.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:16 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:45 AM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 71 of 92 (870044)
01-11-2020 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
01-11-2020 7:27 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Faith writes:

Sanctions are one way we have of preventing their murdering our people.

Yet the 9-11 folk were from Saudi Arabia and we do NOT sanction Saudi Arabia.

One way to stop Iran from being a threat is to make Iran a partner.

Do we not destroy our enemies when we make them our friends?'


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 7:27 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 8:03 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34322
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 92 (870049)
01-11-2020 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
01-11-2020 7:45 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Iran wants us dead, we're the Great Satan, remember? Islam wants us dead. The only way they become "partners" with a nonMuslim nation is by pretense until they have the upper hand.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:45 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 8:26 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 76 by frako, posted 01-11-2020 9:17 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 73 of 92 (870054)
01-11-2020 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
01-11-2020 8:03 AM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Faith writes:

Iran wants us dead, we're the Great Satan, remember? Islam wants us dead. The only way they become "partners" with a nonMuslim nation is by pretense until they have the upper hand.

Yet once again, reality proves you are wrong.

Here is a list of predominately Muslim Countries that do not consider us The Great Satan.

Country

Indonesia
Pakistan
Bangladesh
Nigeria
Egypt
Turkey
Algeria
Sudan
Morocco
Saudi Arabia
Uzbekistan
Niger
Mali
Malaysia
Senegal
Kazakhstan
Burkina Faso
Tunisia
Guinea
Jordan
Azerbaijan
Chad
Tajikistan
Libya
Sierra Leone
Turkmenistan
Kyrgyzstan
United Arab Emirates
Mauritania
Lebanon
Oman
Kuwait
Albania
Qatar
Bahrain
Djibouti
Western Sahara
Maldives
Brunei
Mayotte


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-11-2020 8:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13520
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 74 of 92 (870078)
01-11-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by jar
01-11-2020 7:16 AM


Why The base Middle (Working) Class Might Be Annoyed By Globalism.
jar writes:

There is only one reason that Iran does not sell us oil and that is because we decided to place sanctions on Iranian Oil.

Well that *was* stupid. It makes me think that the top 10% are really running this country and its policies to the detriment of the middle class and poor. Now I am a self proclaimed political moderate, but when it comes to issues like my own social security and future, I become one of the "base" real quick...though I do not support nor like Trump. Faith and them do have a point in that he is standing up to this whole globalization effort to bring the global population into a more equitable ratio...which we pure capitalists do not support. yes, Im all for bringing people up to a better standard of living but certainly not at my expense. I need (and deserve) every dollar I get.

As long as the US continues to act like the stupid bullies we have been then yes, we will suffer.
And I am essentially speaking for the middle class and warning the powers that be that if they screw too much with us, everyone will suffer. We dont like being used any more than the global masses liked it before.

And going down swinging is just another example of utter stupidity.
Perhaps, but do not underestimate the likelihood that it will happen. What else do you expect us to do? Turn the other cheek and pay the bill out of honor while we grow closer to poverty? No, this bill will get paid by everyone or no one.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:16 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 01-11-2020 7:27 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31978
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 75 of 92 (870082)
01-11-2020 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Thugpreacha
01-11-2020 4:34 PM


Re: Why The base Middle (Working) Class Might Be Annoyed By Globalism.
Phat writes:

Perhaps, but do not underestimate the likelihood that it will happen. What else do you expect us to do? Turn the other cheek and pay the bill out of honor while we grow closer to poverty? No, this bill will get paid by everyone or no one.

Phat, the bill will get paid.

And just how do you imagine we can force anyone else to pay.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-11-2020 4:34 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-12-2020 2:43 AM jar has responded

  
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