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Author Topic:   Iraq needed Saddam?
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 91 of 101 (870159)
01-13-2020 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Thugpreacha
01-12-2020 3:39 PM


Re: Why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?.
Phat writes:

One should not have to be responsible for what one does not fully understand or create.


So ignorance is an excuse? "But officer, I didn't know the car couldn't drive itself while I was texting."

Phat writes:

You claim that socialism is the answer...


No, I don't claim that anything is "the answer". I don't believe that there is a magical "the answer". That idea is pushed by opportunists like Trump for their own benefit.

But we are a social species and we do depend on socialism a lot more than some people are willing to admit.

Phat writes:

But being broke is NOT an option.


You're almost right there. Nobody decides to go broke. But it often does happen inevitably as a consequence of our actions.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-12-2020 3:39 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-17-2020 1:31 AM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 92 of 101 (870325)
01-17-2020 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by ringo
01-13-2020 10:48 AM


The Whole White Privilege Argument Is Tired.
ringo writes:

So ignorance is an excuse?

How could I be expected to be responsible for what my ancestors *may* have done? I agree with the "white privilege" advocates that there was in fact an artificial construct and an invisible advantage to being white due to our ancestors. I am also aware that the US continues this in some measure today and that part we all are responsible for. But the whole idea of reparations is impractical and counterproductive. Should any bills come due, the entire planet will either pay them off together or the bills will be forgotten. I once had a bankruptcy and there was no practical way to ever pay off those debts in an entire lifetime. Forgiving the debts allowed me to make a new start in life and I am now able to work, live, and survive due to that action. I feel that the US should be extended the same courtesy by the global community. Or is that what you were even referring to by "ignorance"? Heck, the average citizen has no idea what the government does with the money.

But we are a social species and we do depend on socialism a lot more than some people are willing to admit.
That's what I mean. We are all in this together. Remember what happened when the allies tried to gang up on Germany to pay the bill after WW I? It failed. Lesson learned.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 01-13-2020 10:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 01-17-2020 7:16 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(4)
Message 93 of 101 (870358)
01-17-2020 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Thugpreacha
01-17-2020 1:31 AM


Re: The Whole White Privilege Argument Is Tired.
Phat writes:

We are all in this together.


That's what I keep saying - from each according to his ability to each according to his need. Everybody should pay what he can. But you and Trump don't want your precious privilege touched. You wan't to pay the same as the starving children in Africa and keep your collection of ivory backscratchers for your retirement.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-17-2020 1:31 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 2:40 AM ringo has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 94 of 101 (870360)
01-18-2020 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by ringo
01-17-2020 7:16 PM


Re: The Whole White Privilege Argument Is Tired.
That's a crock---putting me in Trump's category! First of all, I don't make enough to save any money apart from maybe $100.00 a month. Second, apart from now being blind in one eye, I have sleep apnea, type 2 diabetes, and am 60 years old and getting worse. Perhaps I am better off financially than your poster child in Africa, but I doubt if I am any stronger. What gets me about you and jars attitudes is the fact that you think the whole world needs help except us old-timers here in America. You are counting on Canada's social largesse to help you, and jar has been a conservative who socked away enough money to get him by in his golden years. That's about all I can surmise. Apparently, you think I am busy scratching my back with ivory jacked off of poached elephants!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 01-17-2020 7:16 PM ringo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 8:25 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31987
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 95 of 101 (870366)
01-18-2020 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Thugpreacha
01-18-2020 2:40 AM


Re: The Whole White Privilege Argument Is Tired.
Phat writes:

What gets me about you and jars attitudes is the fact that you think the whole world needs help except us old-timers here in America. You are counting on Canada's social largesse to help you, and jar has been a conservative who socked away enough money to get him by in his golden years.

Once again, you really need to stop posting absolutely false nonsense.

Neither ringo or I have said that those in the US who need help should not get help. In fact we have said that we should do far more to protect Americans and that the problem stopping that is the tendency of US Voting Citizens to elect politicians that work to keep those who need help from getting help.

But none of this has anything to do with the topic.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 2:40 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 10:22 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 96 of 101 (870371)
01-18-2020 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
01-18-2020 8:25 AM


YOU FINALLY GOT TO ME
After a restless night's sleep where my mind was churning incessantly, I was given a new perspective on a lot of the issues which I have made personal throughout the past week. This in no way means that I agree with you, but let's just say that your counter-perspective has gotten to my thinking. It started last night at around midnite as I was leaving work. We had dealt with a couple of unrepentant shoplifters, and as I got in my car, I found myself ranting aloud about them.

The conversation then morphed into an actual argument that I found myself having with God. (Note that I was in fact talking to myself. The criticism was not directed at me, however. It was directed at the One in charge of all seen and unseen. At this point, while the whole scenario is fresh in my mind, I need to stop and take a quick video of just what transpired. For me, it is easier than trying to recall and type at the same time.

Ranting At God
OK, now that I finished that, I can explain it better.
I found myself ranting at God the whole drive home. I actually believed I was talking to Him, though another part of me knew that I chose to make the scenario up. Whether He actually heard me or not is entirely up to Him. Basically, these shoplifters steal a lot ($2,000.00 daily) from our store, and I see it in terms of stealing from me. And if not just me, then society (honest society) in general. And it makes me rant!! Its really not fair at all, and I imagine the justification that these audacious people have for stealing. To earn a living? To buy drugs? Or to feed their poor impoverished family? (I highly doubt it in most cases) My point? Its not fair and if God Himself approves of this, I indict Him too!!

I thought of the owner of the vineyard hiring workers and paying the slackers the same as He paid the hard workers.

And then it hit me. I was setting God up as a strawman atonement for what bothers me and then knocking Him down! I was doing exactly what jar says we all do. It got me to thinking, that's for sure.

But getting back to what Iraq needs....what is it the rest of the developing world needs? And is it normal for the United States to view them as dengerous competitors?

Do they steal from the US? Is competition a form of stealing?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 8:25 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 11:03 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31987
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 97 of 101 (870379)
01-18-2020 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Thugpreacha
01-18-2020 10:22 AM


Re: YOU FINALLY GOT TO ME
Phat writes:

But getting back to what Iraq needs....what is it the rest of the developing world needs? And is it normal for the United States to view them as dengerous competitors?

Do they steal from the US? Is competition a form of stealing?

If a Starbucks opens in Damascus and is patronized by thousands of Iraqi's daily is it stealing from you?

If we buy Iraqi oil instead of paying troops to guard the wells are they stealing from you?

Which was most beneficial to the US, Japan as an enemy or Japan as an economic competitor?

Which was most beneficial to the US, Germany as an enemy or Germany as an economic competitor?

Which was most beneficial to the US, China as an enemy or China as an economic competitor?

You can continue the list if you want.

Many folk worry about the immigrants at our southern border. But why are they headed this way? What part did we play in creating the conditions that are driving them north? What could we do to ameliorate those conditions?

Can you see a pattern developing?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 10:22 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 12:30 PM jar has responded
 Message 99 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 1:11 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 98 of 101 (870383)
01-18-2020 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
01-18-2020 11:03 AM


Re: YOU FINALLY GOT TO ME
Can you see a pattern developing?
Not quite. I guess I'm still thinking about myself. So let me ask you this question.
When the shoplifters steal $2,000.00 a day from my employer, I see them as essentially stealing from me. Is that part of the pattern? After all, they are not competitors in the traditional sense and yet they are.

And if Iraq sells its oil to China instead of the US, is it because of our price offer or is it because of our politics?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 11:03 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 1:16 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 99 of 101 (870387)
01-18-2020 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
01-18-2020 11:03 AM


MacArthurs Occupation of Japan seen in light of Iraq

So what did MacArthur do successfully that we failed to do with Iraq?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 11:03 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31987
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 100 of 101 (870389)
01-18-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Thugpreacha
01-18-2020 12:30 PM


Re: YOU FINALLY GOT TO ME
Phat writes:

When the shoplifters steal $2,000.00 a day from my employer, I see them as essentially stealing from me. Is that part of the pattern?

Likely.

Phat writes:

And if Iraq sells its oil to China instead of the US, is it because of our price offer or is it because of our politics?

Good start. What does the evidence show? How are oil prices set?

But go further. Look at Iraq. What is Iraq and how did it come into existence? Almost all problems are political and so what political issues are unique to Iraq?

What happened to Czechoslovakia? Why did it happen? How is Czechoslovakia similar to Iraq?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2020 12:30 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by dwise1, posted 01-18-2020 3:36 PM jar has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3934
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 101 of 101 (870396)
01-18-2020 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
01-18-2020 1:16 PM


Re: YOU FINALLY GOT TO ME
What happened to Czechoslovakia? Why did it happen? How is Czechoslovakia similar to Iraq?

And what about Yugoslavia and the way that it fell apart so horrifically badly (eg, outright genocide) after strong-man Tito died?

And thinking it over this past year, I'm seeing Hitler's (not invoking Godwin's Law here) goal of "gathering in the Germans" as not really being so much a land-grab but rather a justifiable (in their eyes) reclamation of German territory that had been taken away from them without their consent less than two decades before (IOW, within the personal memory of most Germans alive then). Large parts of the German Empire in the east were taken to recreate Poland (also from Austria) and Czechoslovakia (the Sudetenland), both in 1918. That left many ethnic Germans as minorities in those new countries, which gave Hitler an excuse and a propaganda opportunity that he made full use of. Saddam Hussein used the same excuse to "return Kuwait to Iraq". When the Soviets gave the eastern part of Germany to Poland (so that they could keep the eastern part of Poland that they had conquered) in the late 40's, they made sure not to make the same mistake by expelling all Germans from the newly Polish territory, created a flood of displaced persons into Germany (a theme used in a number of German films, such as Das Schreckliche Mädchen ("The Nasty Girl")).

Amazing how the arbitrary redrawing of the world's maps by France and England a century ago can have caused and still be causing us so many problems.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 01-18-2020 1:16 PM jar has not yet responded

  
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