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Author Topic:   Game - Battleground God
Sour
Member (Idle past 2268 days)
Posts: 63
From: I don't know but when I find out there will be trouble. (Portsmouth UK)
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 52 of 79 (458253)
02-28-2008 12:08 AM


Brilliant link.
I also took two bullets on the justifying belief issue, I don't agree with them.
quote:
It is justifiable to base one's beliefs about the external world on a firm, inner conviction, regardless of the external evidence, or lack of it, for the truth or falsity of these convictions.
Isn't a 'firm inner conviction' a belief?
Answered false.
quote:
The serial rapist Peter Sutcliffe had a firm, inner conviction that God wanted him to rape and murder prostitutes. He was, therefore, justified in believing that he was carrying out God's will in undertaking these actions.
Answered true.
quote:
Earlier you claimed that it is not justifiable to base one's beliefs about the external world on a firm, inner-conviction, paying no regard to the external evidence, or lack of it, for the truth or falsity of this conviction. But now you say that the rapist Peter Sutcliffe was justified in basing his beliefs about God's will solely on precisely such a conviction.
I say no such thing. I say that he is justified in believing that his actions are justified by his beliefs. In fact, the second sentence of the question, "He was, therefore, justified in believing that he was carrying out God's will in undertaking these actions." is redundant. The first sentence states that he believed it was God's will. Am I meant to judge whether he actually did believe it?
Maybe I'm missing something. Seems like I'm meant to think that just because HIS beliefs are irrational he doesn't actually believe them.

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by compmage, posted 02-28-2008 12:43 AM Sour has replied

  
Sour
Member (Idle past 2268 days)
Posts: 63
From: I don't know but when I find out there will be trouble. (Portsmouth UK)
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 54 of 79 (458264)
02-28-2008 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by RAZD
02-19-2008 10:07 AM


quote:
:15. The serial rapist Peter Sutcliffe had a firm, inner conviction that God wanted him to rape and murder prostitutes. He was, therefore, justified in believing that he was carrying out God's will in undertaking these actions.
The question is whether he was justified in believing that he was carrying out God's will, based on a a firm, inner conviction.
You later in this thread define belief as :
be·lief -noun1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.
(American Heritage Dictionary, 2008)
So isn't 'firm inner conviction' the same as belief?
Which would mean that the question is whether he was justified in believing that he was carrying out God's will based on a belief.
What that conviction actually was and what the subsequent behavior involved are irrelevant to the question of whether he was justified in his belief or not.
Right, I get that it's meant to be about whether his initial belief is justified, but isn't the conviction the same thing as his belief?
He believed it, but is he justified in believing that he believed it?
I'm having comprehension problems with this question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2008 10:07 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Sour
Member (Idle past 2268 days)
Posts: 63
From: I don't know but when I find out there will be trouble. (Portsmouth UK)
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 55 of 79 (458268)
02-28-2008 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by compmage
02-28-2008 12:43 AM


Right, I think I understand why my answer was wrong. I'm making a mistake by putting too much weight on the first sentence and thinking that it says he believes that God wanted him to do these things (which it does right?). The bit you bolded makes it clear, if that's all the question is meant to be about.
The way it is phrased is confusing, it doesn't seem to be asking if his 'firm inner conviction' is justified, but if his belief in his own 'firm inner conviction' is.
Aye yay yay, much ado about nothing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by compmage, posted 02-28-2008 12:43 AM compmage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by compmage, posted 02-28-2008 5:48 AM Sour has not replied
 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 02-28-2008 7:19 PM Sour has not replied

  
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