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Author | Topic: Does an atheist have to believe in evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I found this: hinduwebsite.com
The Charvaka system of thought believed neither in God nor in the after life of man. Their doctrines are traced to an ancient scripture called the Charvaka Dharma probably written by an author of the name of Charvaka. Reference to the Charvakas or the Lokayatas was found in some ancient Hindu and Buddhist Scriptures such as the Prabhodha Chandrodaya, an allegorical play in which a character sums up the beliefs of this school, and also the epics, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. One of the chief protagonists of this school existed during the time of the Buddha and his name was Ajita Kesakamabali. He recognized only four elements and declared that a combination of these four elements produced certain vitality called life, which is very much in tune with the modern theories of creation of life on earth. At the time of death these four elements would return to their respective sources, earth to earth, air to air and so on. There was no mystery of life beyond this. " When the body dies both fool and wise alike are cut off and perish. They do not survive after death." ABE: delightfully simple. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-10-2006 07:32 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 05-10-2006 07:33 PM
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ohnhai Member (Idle past 5188 days) Posts: 649 From: Melbourne, Australia Joined: |
RR writes: OK fine, by definition you are correct. But 19 times out of 20 (or whatever #)you ask an atheist why they don't believe, you know what answer you'll get. Again I think you are making the mistake in assuming lack of belief in one thing equates to an inability to believe in anything else. I personally believe in the scientific method, I have a lot of faith in it and its ability to hone in on a solid explanation of that we see around us. Also its wrong to assume that an Atheist has any rational reason for his lack of belief in the divine. For instance if an Atheist doesn’t believe in God because “the pixie under the potting shed said God doesn’t exist” then he is as much an Atheist as the one that discounts God because of the lack of empirical data. However, you are right in saying that vast majority of Atheists will cite the lack of empirical data as the overriding reason for their lack of belief, but that does not mean that this worldview is actually required to be an Atheist. Therefore, to reiterate the only thing that defines an Atheist as such is the lack of belief in the divine. He may hold this view for any rational or irrational reason he chooses, and lack of belief in the divine does not exclude the possibility that he may believe in many other things.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Really? I'm curious: what answer is that? You can read through these forums, or just go ask 20 athiests.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
If you follow the conversation backwards by clicking on the little links that say replys to this message, or this message is in reply too, you can find out.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I personally believe in the scientific method, I have a lot of faith in it and its ability to hone in on a solid explanation of that we see around us. Honesty, I really respect you for putting it that way.No joke. Also its wrong to assume that an Atheist has any rational reason for his lack of belief in the divine. Well, I am not assuming, just going by what I used to think, and by what others tell me. I am not making anything up.
For instance if an Atheist doesn’t believe in God because “the pixie under the potting shed said God doesn’t exist” then he is as much an Atheist as the one that discounts God because of the lack of empirical data. Right, that is why I siad technically you are correct, but we both know that is the exception not the rule.
However, you are right in saying that vast majority of Atheists will cite the lack of empirical data as the overriding reason for their lack of belief, but that does not mean that this worldview is actually required to be an Atheist. I agree.
Therefore, to reiterate the only thing that defines an Atheist as such is the lack of belief in the divine. He may hold this view for any rational or irrational reason he chooses, and lack of belief in the divine does not exclude the possibility that he may believe in many other things. Technically yes. But by your own admission, most athiest use the reason of lack of empirical evidence. This is the logic that governs their lives, or way of thinking. Unless the logical ones are hypocrites, then it is safe to assume that they apply this logic to eveything. I bet if we took a survey, we would find this to be true, and after over 3000 posts in here and talking to athiests, this is the general line of thinking that an athiests has. To deny it, is almost a lie. I am starting another thread in the coffee house to get some answers, I am curious.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5898 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Since it was your assertion that you knew the answer that an atheist would give, perhaps you could provide a summation of (at least) your perception of the question. Telling me to go back through 4 years of posts simply doesn't address the question. I'm curious as to what YOU think atheists might say. Thanks.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I started another thread in the coffee house, and we can see.
I believe I stated what an athiests answer would be, even though my answer is technically incorrect.
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Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
riVeRraT writes: that is the exception not the rule. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of atheists don't believe in gods because that would conflict with their religious beliefs (e.g. Buddhism). Maybe not so much in the West, though.
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: so, you mean, don't believe in the supernatiral?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
so, you mean, don't believe in the supernatiral? supernatiral, chuckle. The definition of an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a divine being, god/gods. That is what we are talking about. The reasons why. Also if they "believe" in anything at all.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Also if they "believe" in anything at all. Everybody believes in something. I, for example, believe in Logic.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Everybody believes in something. I, for example, believe in Logic. Why do people always take things out of context? Sure you could say that we all believe in something, since nothing is ever proven. But you know if I used that statement in the wrong thread, people would jump all over it. You could say you have faith in science. But not without evidence, that's my point.
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JavaMan Member (Idle past 2345 days) Posts: 475 From: York, England Joined: |
And what about this for pre-Darwinian atheism (from the Wikipedia article on the Epicurean writer, Lucretius):
Lucretius identifies superstition with the notion that the gods created our world or interfere with its operations in any way. Fear of such gods is banished by showing that the operations of the world can be accounted for entirely in terms of the purposeless motions of atoms through empty space, instead of in terms of the will of the gods. The fear of death is banished by showing that death is annihilation, and so, as a simple state of nothingness, death can be neither good nor bad. Lucretius also puts forward the 'symmetry argument' against the fear of death. In it, he says that people who fear the prospect of eternal non-existence after death should think back to the eternity of non-existence before their birth, which really wasn't so bad after all. The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Sure you could say that we all believe in something, since nothing is ever proven. But you know if I used that statement in the wrong thread, people would jump all over it. What on earth are you talking about? Logic is based on some axiomatic assumptions (such as the law of non-contradiction) that one just has to accept. I believe that one can rationally intuit these assumptions. But I can't prove the validity of rational intuition. This shows I'm not a thorough-going nihilist, but other than that I think I'm very nihilistic. The idea is to keep the assumptions to a minimum. Of course I have feelings, such as moral feelings--or at least I think that's what they are. What are they based on logically? Nothing at all. Nonetheless they sometimes determine my behavior. Everybody believes in something--that's my view.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
In other words, one could say that you "believe in gravity" since nothing is ever proven.
But jump off a bridge and you know what will "probably happen".
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