Hitler in the 21st century

what youi are suffering is not "right-on"isum , its just classic power politics , being practices by the classic politian who should never have been allowed into power ..the problem with local councils , and national goverments is it attracts the wrong sort .. people who think they know whats best and want power so they can enact it ... and democracy is the worst as it lets even nuts have his/her say and to run for office ... plus we are all far to lazy to get up and vote them out ..Hitler was a nut , if he had not gained power he would have done little harm , but the condistions allowed his rise , and as always happens all that is need for the bad to win is the good to do nothing .your council meeting would most likely have 70%+ of those there being "the regulars" those who always turn up , you and a few others turn up as the nites debate affects you .. so you get shouted down by the majority.. this is where democracy does not work .. you have to turn up every time .. even for the debate on what colour bin bags to use ..because the people who are "concerned " about the bin bags are the nuts who want power , and by always being there they establish control....
and these are the sort who will use any "phrase" to gain their ends ..what about the children ... blame the (instert race/ class/ sex/nation)for it....PC statements are just another set of ammo for the political animals to use , just like falling moral standards, TV shows , women at work , abortion ,foreigners , football fans , drug use , the other political party.go back and look at where the speed reducing measure are put .. ill bet they do not effecdt the "council members" to much ..

sorry but no not a brilliant leader he was average at best , he was able to rule by setting one faction vs another .. not a long term plan ...he was a good speach make , be had the basic cunning of a politian , but few of the other skills ...he was just in the right place at the right time ..as a strategist he was poor , he would swing from caution to all out with no reason , he was not realistic about units capabilities , he made no logistic plans , he easily became foucsed on small details , and lost the big picture ..he was a nut , as defined as someone marching to their own tune , he had lost touch with rest of humanity .. and that is how he was able to cross so many boundaries of comman thought and behaviour ..into the war he became physiacl and mentally sick , drug dependant , paranoid ..for good reasons .. and lost touch with real events and replaced them with his desires .....

but kids even 3 year olds have always played in the street , from well when ever the first streets date from , lowering the speed results in less death and , less injury , it gives the driver more time to see and react ...you want a "nazi" style version ... ok break the sped limit once banned 5 years , break it twice banned for live , no cop out crime of dangerous driveing .. but murder or attempted ... you knew you where speeding .. in a machine that will kill at those speeds ..ban all non resident cars from housing areas between 7 am and 7 pm ..make all cars have speed regulators to the max speed limit ,oh and my fav anti speed measure .. remove all drive saftey features , {and put a large spike in the middle of the streering wheel aimed at the drivers heart..no reallty not a joke } ..nothing like fear to concentrate the mind on carfull driving .you are assuming that drivers have the RIGHT to use the road and where it runs as they wish , BUT the residents , walker, cyclists , children playing also have rights , sometimes the blance swings in favour of one to the loss of the other .. would you not complain if 18 wheeler trucks started using your road as a cut through ? ..or it became a rat run to cross town ... cars do not own the roads .. they just act like they do ...btw speed cameras only enforce the law , you only get a fine when you BREAK the law .... or do you yearn for the human touch of a police office stopping you ?? maybe he could check for drink and drug use at the same time ??

so how do you keep to a 70 or 50 or 30 or 20 mph speed limit .. or are you such a good driver that you just know your speed .. gosh may be your a Einetein .. YOU are MENT to have one eye on the speedometer , even if there are no cameras , children or other cars ...one of the given reasons for the lack of fall in road deaths is drivers have lost touch with the outside world beyond the car .. with airconc , phones, cd music , softride suspension , shaped heated seats the drive is give a nice safe feeling .. that is what makes them complacent ..drives have lost contact with the road , the speed , the danger
and btw deaths HAVE dropped in areas of well layed out traffic control areas .. the problem is mad drives just go elsewhere to speed , plus the still incressing number of cars ...car banning does work ..look at many town centres reclaimed from the car , now nice safe places to walk and let the children play ...yes we all have the same rights .. but the person driving the killing machine has masses more responcability .. they are the killers ....and all the evidence shows they speed , the drive with out paying attention to other road users , and the rest of the world ..oh and they cause deaths of the bystander .. so hows rights are in need of proctection , the bystander or the person in there 1 ton tank in a rush to get home to see a tv show ?? err no it more like remove the part of the equation that causes the headache ..cars can .. and have been banned and replaced and it works , the reason is those jams are caused by one person in each car , too many unnessary car journeys ....no one is saying ban cars from motorways .. just from where other people are trying to live .so you want traffic cops .. ok easy incresse the road tax to cover the cost .. happy now ? .. it would be fare .. rate pays pay for local policing , football fan carry the cost of policing ..this sums it up ... how many clear wide roads do you know ??? most i see are full of parked cars , moving cars trucks buses .. and a clear day in england .. hmmm.. j/k
so with out keeping an eye on the speedometer how do you know you are doing 30 mph ??
and driving at 20mph only make YOU complacent cos YOU think YOU are safer ... being hit by a car at 20mph still hurts and can still kill , its still the same 1 ton of metal death machine , .. IF you realise that you are being complacent and still carry on driving thats a crime .. called driving without due care and attention .. the speed is irrelavant ...
why do speed cameras make you check your speedometer .. is it to avoid a fine or points .. shouldnt it be to make sure you are driving at a safe speed , that you are considering other people and their rights ??if as you claim drivers only look at the speedometer when there are cameras then i demand 1 cameras every 25 metre or road .. i want to fell safe .. i want drivers to be checking their speed all the time .

ok such statements get us nowhere ..and BTW im for safe living , driving is included but is a minor part ....if you are unable to drive attentivly while maintain control of, and hence knowledge , of you cars speed then i would say you are unfit to drive ... tell me why this is wrong ....can you show a study that at 20mph you loss touch with the world ... given that at ANY speed you shouold be devoting the same amount of brain activity to driving .. whats magic about slow speed .. is it just boring going slow ??, or is the blood flow to the brain is changed ??, does you hand eye corrodination improves you approch the speed of light ?? ,are cars badly designed such that the give less feed back below 30mph ?? please detail you reasons ....odd that towns like say Reading that have banned the car from town centre have found a large incresse in the usage of the shops , cafes , cinema , public buildings in that center .. gosh how did all the people travel to and from it ?? why do they say its now a pleasent place to be ??and we are talking about town centers and residentual areas .. if you cant plan a route to avoid a few areas well you are not really trying .. .. or do you assume the right to drive anywhere ??? should not a balance exsist with some areas for people not cars ??What is so important that you must be able to drive at 30 mph with no speed bumps ??? is not one life save worth a few minutes of your time ?? and do not forget the suffering of the injured , all so you are not delayed ...if its so important for you to travel from A to B each day why not just sell the car(just work out how much you will save ) and move to B ..???cars are not a right , cars are not vital ..there are other ways and means .. a car is a privalage and luxuary item ..look at the cars we buy .. soft seats , nice colours , music systems , air con , adjustable everything .. better thatn many homes ...

well nice to see you making your reasoning so clear ..... as long as you are safe and not slowed down , or it doesnt cost you ......i mean you dont even say " we car drivers" just you ....one of the given reasons for the so called plataeu in car deaths is we have put in place all the " easy" measures , better brakes , better handling , safe road lay out , ABS , airbags , seat belts ... and remember most of those " saved " lives have been car drivers and passengers NOT those hit by cars .secondly that data is distorted by the fact that many cameras are used to control traffic on car only routes A roads evenm motorways .. where they are about stopping car on car events .. NOT car on person events .. Further some cameras are clearly targeted at areas that are know "speeder" hotspots .. they inforce the Law.. but have a lesser saftey role .
So its unreasonable to lump ALL camreas into the "lowering deaths " type.now it would be unfair to call into question the " correctness" of The Safe Speeds Graph .. But they are clearly a site with a motive .. lets see contact site .. hmm some chap in scotland ...oooh no he's in london for the " Smash Speed Cameras " meeting .. and who is this site aimed at ... lets look at the adverts it carries... tried to link but wont let me , use Legend post 80 site link to see...ads for police radar detectors .. are they legal ?
3 ads for lawyers (?) who will help you avoid fines from speed cameras
ad for Rally and stunt driving
ad for Skid driving
ad for defensive driving
ad for advanced drivingsooo it a petrolheads web site .. read some more and its stance is very clear ...so not a unbiased site ...so now the whole spped policy is wrong .. i guess you want to be able to drive at 45mph on unlite roads ,, well try that for some time and you will not have a car ...road lighting , not street lighting , where does the light fall on the road .... save lives .. of CAR DRIVER ...
as to 30mph zonestry thinks about the reasons why
its safer to crash at 30 than 40 ...
the road surface maybe poor ,
the road maybe weak and need less loading
the road way suffer from surface flooding due to water running off the fields lining the road
the road maybe used for horses
the road maybe used by farmers
the road may have become a ratrun
the human beings may need protection from road noise .. higher speed more noise
the wildlife may may need protection from road noise .. higher speed more noise
and so forth...so in the bill of human rights where does it say that you have a right to drive a car at what ever speed you think reasonable ? ? ??more maybe you really do need to travel fast ... i know as it so important why not give all you drivers with real need for speed blue flashing lights to put on you car roof .....

so are you saying that its too hard to drive at 23mph ... shouldnt we redesign the car , add new training and testing for drivers to solve this problem .... maybe you have discovered the key to the next step in improving saftey ... cars design to go slower , driver trainer to handle cars ... so you feel drive at slow spped is boring ... why not get a nice full colour A4 sized photo foe a 13 year victim of a head on 30 mph impact and stick to you dashboard .. might that keep you mind on task ... or as ive said lets make cars less safe for the driver bet you dont get bored then .... and err how is it boring when you said, at ther top of your post , you conetration is constantly fliping from speedo to road , to speed camera to road sign , so much so your likely to hit something , or is constant activity boring .i repeat..if you are unable to drive attentivly while maintain control of, and hence knowledge , of you cars speed then i would say you are unfit to drive ...you would agree unfit due to drink drugs lack of sleep , on the moblie phone , eating lunch , are all valid resaon s ... so id being bored , heck what sort of stimuli do you need to ensure everyones saftey ??WRT reading no ones claiming universal concent .. get real ..but the town center now functions as a public place , there are more visitors .. come on even you given the choice prefer to shop , eat , walk around withj out the constsant buss of traffic and the Fun of trying to cross a busy road with a days bags of shopping , the air is cleaner , it does not smell of peterol , its now a people place... and isnt that what town centers should be ....???err confused you ref to you post 55 say about imprison drivers and PC ....
well i asked is not a few minutes worth a life .. no one said imprisoning drivers to clear the roads , just ask them to drive slower .. , and if being PC is trying to save life and lower injury .. well that seems good PC....and no people make the car a personal necessity ,i want this job , but i want to live in this area( ie non built up , low traffic ) and i want my car , then moan about the traveling .....peopel refuse to compromise .. it s all i want , i have a right to .. and stuff the rest of the world ..... and guess what they are still unhappy ...oh and by the way neighbour's have a old MG sports thing , low end of range , a golf newish , a shinny new corsa , one has a jap 4x4 ,another a megane , couple of people carriers , ones a picaso i think , and i have , trashy i know , a BMW 520d.. tis only the saloon model and 14 months old now ...

well if you call mid 40's not very old , i like too ..)..
ya i only work mon to fri,s c.40 hours a week , 31 days holiday
if you had read my last post .. drive to work c. 30 mins per day ..Because i moved to reduce it ..
arr sweet mortgage only another 19 years and we will be forced to part , how time and money flys .......
dependants .. well not counting house plants,but including pets 7.. mind you the goldfish arnt too demanding .....spooky how did you know about them ......well i guess your car is the center of your exsistance you have compromised and become its slave ....... so well i hiope you find a 40mph route to work , i guess that will make the world a alright place in your mind ..good luck .

lucky ... i find the more effort and though you put in the "luckier" you become ....as to affording to move .. as i said before .. we moved to a smaller house .. we downgraded one aspect to improve another.. in fact living costs are about the same as to make no difference ... and we planed and economised and save to cover the costs of moving ... its all about what you want .. more time at home in a leesr house or a 2 hour hell driver each day and snazzier house .... life style choices ... btw my hell drive was not due to speed lowering measures just volume of traffic ...may be thats a answer quadruple the number of cars then the congestion will slow them all to what is it 7-10 mph in most busy town/city centers ...clearly you are trapped in your current lifestyle , for many , reasons , so to you more speed control is a unbareable addition , but please do try to thing of the rest of us sometimes .....do remeber that the growth in car travel national heck globally has been unplaned and uncontrolled , historically we have just added more roads and roads that let the cars go faster , i mean we have destroyed houses and shops ect to clear space for new roads , now for the first time we are looking at a wider picture , trying to make the car fit in with everyones need ..so the peterolheads ( an affectionate term i might add ) are on the lossing side for once , but hopefully a better life balance for all can be found ... but like all change some one will feel put out , but try looking from bothsides .. and just like road building plans , no one is giong to get the new plans right every time ....Edited by ikabod, : rewording

********* Please take this in nthe spirit is writen .. it is not a personal insult , its a considered responce to HOW vyou are trying to make your argument ****************************************************************************......you do realize you a guilty of the same crime as those.. you flame ... you say they just shout out "what about the kids" to stop people answering back ... and what do you do .. you invoke the fear of the Nais and Hitler .. you compare speed bump to ...you have ended up becoming what you are protesting about ... dont sink to there level .. keep your debate clean and focused ...take them on with logic and truth ...to someone who has seen ethnic cleansing in reality you just come across as a fool .....clearly this debate is going nowhere and is in risk of becoming a argument of no value , so i will absent myself from it until it refocuses ..... Edited by ikabod, : rewording