Immigration issues

we have always thought that the newest group of americans was going to erode our society. italians and irish were once a plague on our society. now they are having their turn to hate the new guys who are taking their jobs. i think the solution to the "immigration crisis" is to figure out why they want to come here. this is obvious enough. life is good here and shitty where they come from. so, i propose that if we really want to slow immigration, that we change our foreign policy to aid in the betterment of the emmigrating nations.

there's lots of ways to do it.
reduce subsidies,
reduce import tarrifs,
support fair trade legislation,
help foreign governments solve corruption and crime problems (like mexico),
support fair labor standards under international law,
support education in foreign countries,
buy products produced under fair trade standardsi really could go on.
by working to improve economic and social conditions in other nations, we reduce the need for people to escape bad situations.

i think i'm going to have a heart attack. they were new to our society and didn't know our laws. also, where they came from had a weaker tradition of the rule of law... they were from disturbed, troubled places. someone from mexico now, because of his experiences with the corrupt mexican police, might be less likely to trust our legal system... especially when people tend to target him because he looks "illegal". because 1. we generally are more likely to target people based on race. 2. we live here. other countries have just as much debate over immigration laws, but we don't hear about it, because it doesn't generally concern us. 3. for so long, we had almost completely open borders and the promise of a perfect life here makes people think it should be easier to get in. understandably. but our laws are inconstistent and often clearly racist. further, the ways people want to "fix" the illegal immigration problems are unreasonable and short-sighted. if we're so worried about terrorists, why aren't we building a wall between here and canada? because we're not. we're concerned with brown people taking our majority. why do we only have a wet-foot/dry-foot policy for cubans who risk political persectution if they are forced to return home but not hatians who face similar fears in their troubled home? because cubans are mostly white and also have a strong and vocal political presence while hatians tend to distrust the government.this may seem cynical and even doubtful, but it's the obvious reality. our policies are questioned because they are racist (even if they are not racially motivated... which um. i think they probably are.).we have a right to control our borders, and fuck anyone who says otherwise. but we have a responsibility to make sure our laws are reasonable, efficient, and just and support the principles of the rights which we grant to our citizens.

do people have a right to steal food if they are starving, or is it a privilege?it's not about having the right to come here, it's about having no other options. if your family is starving now are you going to sit there and hope the paperwork goes through or are you gonna come in and hang out outside the home depot and wait for a truck to pull up?

we probably need to streamline our immigration policies quite a bit.

sustainable, traditional forms of agriculture and production do not preclude civilization and do not require neolithic conditions. how narrow-minded can you be? one example of traditional, sustainable agriculture is crop rotation. this ensures that soil is not so quickly depleted and gives people a variety of crops to sell and consume contributing to a rich economy and a healthy diet. our corporations have encouraged over-production of a single crop which results in slash and burn agriculture in order to replace the depleted soil. this results in the loss of viable land, local richness of culture and resources, and a reduction of variety in crops that can be sold locally.our methods only help us. they take advantage of and oppress those who work for us.

"hispanic" actually often can denote a racial group, or several. while it doesn't actually mean much in itself (being from the island of hispaniola, which denotes only two groups, one of which is definitely not what we think of when we say hispanic), it is often conflated with the term "latino". there are a variety of groups within this distinction (which really means nothing except "spanish speaking peoples who come from south of america" and they tend to be biracial or better. if you think they are white because they speak a european language, you are sadly mistaken. most have a mix of african, carribean, or amerindian ancestry, and i dare you to define that as not racially distinct from most "americans".sure, some mexicans and puerto ricans (yes, i know, citizens-ish) and what have you are of pure spanish decent. these are not the majority, and the ones i know don't have many problems. funny thing that.and then there's those brazillians and they're not hispanic or latino, as they don't speak spanish. but where do they mark their ethnicity on stuff?Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

race doesn't have to have anything to do with one's nationality.you say that we cannot call it racism, because it's not a real race. what is a real race? races are artificial groups defined by outsiders based on phenotype characteristics resulting from sexual selection within areas of human settlement. if a group is defined as an "other" what difference does it make if we call it "xenophobia" or "racism"? they're the same disease. you know full well that when people talk about hispanic or latino immigrants, they mean short, brown people from mexico stealing our jobs and refusing to learn english. none of which is true all-together for any real group of immigrants. hispanic immigrants learn english at the same rate as all other immigrant groups. the second generation immigrants are generally fluent in both languages and the third generation immigrants lose their spanish, mostly. just like poles, just like italians, just like everyone else. most hispanics are not as brown as people want to believe, and the short people from certain tribes in mexico (and guatemala, the mayans are fairly small) are only one of many ethnic groups. however, race is defined by outsiders and generally uneducated ones. if john wayne smith in podunkburg thinks 'them dirty wetbacks is diffurnt than him', then he has defined them as a race, and he's probably not alone. you are aware that about a hundred years ago, italians and greeks were not considered white? and not just by nazis.god. if the jews can consider themselves a race (and a single race at that *scoffs*) then it should be quite clear that it doesn't mean anything. but does that change the fact that racism is a problem and a definable set of attitudes? no. it's xenophobia determined predominantly by phenotype instead of, say, calling them french fries.

there's always abortion. i was kind of referring to even legal immigrants might take issue with or avoid our police because of their experience with the polic at home. also, in jupiter, just north of here, the cops purposely pull over the guatemalans and try to get them in trouble, even though they're legal. you're kidding, right? do you see anyone stop a swede on the street and ask for their green card? no. just mexicans. just like they yell at middle easterners for being terrorists. did i say we should have open borders? i said we used to and people got used to it. dear god, don't get me started on the fucking cubans. you know why the dictatorship is still standing? because our expatriate enforced embargos have created an environment in which it's easy to say that america is the evil. they also have not produced any meaningful change in how castro misused his available resources. of course he'd dead now. wait 60 years and they'll admit it. congratulations. i have friends who are black. i invited a few tokens to my mlkjday party. but no mexicans are gonna be at my cinco de mayo party. they might take my job. opposing illegal immigration is about money. however, the way our laws are built allows different groups more entrance and allows different levels of amnesty based on nothing legitimate. hatians live in constant turmoil and yet we have no amnesty program like we have for the cuban rafters. exactly. the solutions our "tough on immigration" politicians come up with are crap. someone else suggested that we get tough on companies that hire illegals. that's a good plan. but it'll never get through the business lobby. we could start discussing hiring descrimination here. i can tell you where the hatians work and where the cubans work. but that's way off-topic. cause they stayed in texas and new mexico where they've had brown people since they joined. i think it's more that they're living in different areas. also, like i said before, hispanic immigrants learn the language at the same rate as all other immigrants to this country have. it's hard to learn your first foreign language at 30. do you speak another language? and they assume they're all illegal.
my roommate's boss asked a job candidate a couple weeks ago when he could provide documentation to work in this country. he's from puerto rico. with good reason. they come here legally or not and what kind of jobs can they get? nannies, yard help, day laborers, cleaners... dirty, unrespected jobs for dirty, unrespected people. i've never had this problem. who says they're going to lose their rights? more workers and more consumers is good for the economy. there are no limited quantity of jobs that get handed out on a first come, first serve basis for these people to "steal" from us. more people means more requirement for goods and services. more requirement for goods and services means more jobs.

i had a friend in undergrad who had a really shity pickup. he'd get pulled over once a week by the cops and when they'd walk up to the window, they'd say "oh. we thought you were one of the guats."
it's anecdotal, but it happened a lot. but the terrorists all came through canada. why are we worried about people just trying to work when there are terrorists out there? my boyfriends step siblings are cuban-polish. it's not about the "race", it's the politics i'm bothered by. no, didn't we get a president killed over something about cuba? i kid. yes. but the embargos have clearly failed to weaken his hold on cuba, which they were designed to do. they've also made us look no better. so they say. i haven't seen him since, what? october? i'm saying they agree with the people who hired them. just because a policy is not intended to be racist does not mean it isn't. separate but equal was ruled to be just but was later ruled to be unequal. fat lot of good it did. but the solution is to be reasonable about it and not to just do whatever sexy thing people think will help. get tough on people who give jobs to illegals. that will help. building a wall, shooting people on the border, will not. exactly. these people just want jobs. the people who are really responsible to our laws who are breaking them are our local rich republicans. here, the hatians work part time in fast food places. the cubans work in brokerage firms, in skilled jobs, in schools, in retail... she's someone's abuelita. really. americans who assume that all brown people who speak spanish are illegal. i've never been asked in an interview for proof of employability. the first day of work, i take the form home and get it signed. yes, but people who come in with quality educations still end up starting at the bottom. how exactly does providing more workers and more consumers reduce your rights? just because you're paranoid, doesn't make you right. excess what? excess people working the blueberry fields in maine? i've worked there, i promise, there's not any excess in migrant farm work. excess in janitors? really? cause everyone in america wants to clean toilets at walmart. not enough jobs in big cities of migrant labor? honestly. show me that the unemployment is not related to shifting industries. so the car companies have moved to mexico from detroit. so that means that there's no chance for other jobs? if there's only one walmart in a small town, sure, there's gonna be fewer jobs because one company provides all the jobs and services. this is the fault of walmart, not the immigrants. if there are so few jobs, what does it matter if the immigrants are legal or not? they're still "stealing our jobs". you are aware that illegal immigrants are underpaid and ill-treated and sometimes forced to work without pay because they have no recourse? are you going to say they deserve to be taken advantage of? because they don't want to pay the minimum wage that citizens and legals can fight for. it's pure and simple injustice.

arguing that it's wrong to steal their land and use it for our own profit (becaause they "bought it fair and square") when they could be using just hiring practices and charging the same amount and actually providing useful, reasonable incomes to their workers is not the same as demanding that they continue to live in straw huts. why don't you take a trip to south america and see how people live instead of living in your little concrete block with your fancy internet and your popped collar?

what unions? what a joke. i never said it was easy. i said it was the right thing to do. that's their choice. why should they protect their natural resources when we don't?

do you really suggest that we wait to see how many people we can kill with our immigration policies? what kind of heartless fuck are you?

those finite resources make up more than half of the wealth of the whole world.

i call it several because i'm educated and smart enough to know that all brown people aren't the same. i know that there are still very distinct morphological groups within former tribal areas in central and south america. i know on sight a guatemalan from a chihuahuan even though they are both short and quite brown. but these are all various groups of post-migration russo-assiatic area peoples (or however you would describe amerindians) often mixed with their european and sometimes arabic or african (spain is a funny place) conquerors.just because you are advanced enough to realize that race is really quite nonexistent, does not make it not an issue here.also, just because the term "hispanic" is misused, doesn't mean that there isn't a huge plague of anti-latino sentiment.