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Author Topic:   Who has the best avatar?
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 31 of 57 (70447)
12-01-2003 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
12-01-2003 9:56 PM


crashfrog responds to me:
quote:
I thought he meant "gay" as in the sense of being happy, or well-festooned. In the context of an armored knight that seemed to be the more reasonable interpretation than anything having to do with sexual preference.
Right...because she's got a smile on her face...wait...she's scowling...well, she's dancing merrily around...wait...she's drawn a bow-string...well, there's ruffles and intense colors...no, it's armor.
Um, what makes that picture an example of "being happy" or "well-festooned"?
quote:
In the context of an armored knight
Since when is the context of an armored knight preparing to kill somebody something that we would call "happily excited, merry, keenly alive and exuberant, having or inducing high spirits, bright, lively brilliant in color, given to social pleasures, licentious"?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 12-01-2003 9:56 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 12-01-2003 10:08 PM Rrhain has replied
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 12-01-2003 10:58 PM Rrhain has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 57 (70454)
12-01-2003 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Rrhain
12-01-2003 10:04 PM


Um, what makes that picture an example of "being happy" or "well-festooned"?
She's a knight, right? Like people would say "a chivalrous, gay knight" or "life was bonnie and gay." Not that she in particular is bonnie and gay, but that fantasy knights in general are.
What makes that picture an example of a lesbian?
Since when is the context of an armored knight preparing to kill somebody something that we would call "happily excited, merry, keenly alive and exuberant, having or inducing high spirits, bright, lively brilliant in color, given to social pleasures, licentious"?
Since Sir Walter Scott wrote Ivanhoe. Don't you read books? This is a funny question for somebody who obviously knows role-playing games to ask.
[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-01-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Rrhain, posted 12-01-2003 10:04 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 2:44 AM crashfrog has replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 33 of 57 (70474)
12-01-2003 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Rrhain
12-01-2003 10:04 PM


If Rrhain is straight, so am I
Rrhain,
It's a relief to know there's someone like you monitoring our posts for non-sanctioned word usage. With freedom comes responsibility, that's what we used to say in the gulag.
Just so I don't come off as culturally insensitive, do you prefer to be called a 'humorless irritating fuckwad' or are you reclaiming the term 'pushy self-righteous asshole'?
------------------
The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed.
Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Rrhain, posted 12-01-2003 10:04 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by AdminNosy, posted 12-01-2003 11:16 PM MrHambre has replied
 Message 36 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 3:01 AM MrHambre has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 34 of 57 (70480)
12-01-2003 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by MrHambre
12-01-2003 10:58 PM


Re: If Rrhain is straight, so am I
If I remember correctly, Rrhain is our resident mathematician. It is in the nature of mathematicians to be very, very precise. Even picky, some might say.
Whatever, he is I think your use of language is NOT called for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 12-01-2003 10:58 PM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by MrHambre, posted 12-02-2003 6:15 AM AdminNosy has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 35 of 57 (70510)
12-02-2003 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
12-01-2003 10:08 PM


crashfrog responds to me:
quote:
Like people would say "a chivalrous, gay knight"
Please tell me we're having a sarcastic exchange and not that you actually believe this....
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 12-01-2003 10:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 12-02-2003 1:09 PM Rrhain has replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 36 of 57 (70513)
12-02-2003 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by MrHambre
12-01-2003 10:58 PM


Re: If Rrhain is straight, so am I
No, AdminNosy, this has nothing to do with me being a mathematician.
It simply has to do with homophobia.
Had Brian said, "itty bitty Jew knight," would we be having this conversation or would we all know that such were an anti-Semitic comment?
Now, we know that MrHambre has difficulty forming coherent thoughts without insulting people, so I don't really care what he calls me. He knows his statements are inappropriate and does so consciously and deliberately. The difficulty seems to be that Brian doesn't seem to think denigrating gay people is problematic.
I'm still waiting to find out what the point was in calling the avatar "gay." Brian claims it was an acronym. Really? What does it stand for?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by MrHambre, posted 12-01-2003 10:58 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Brian, posted 12-02-2003 1:45 PM Rrhain has replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 37 of 57 (70528)
12-02-2003 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by AdminNosy
12-01-2003 11:16 PM


Mountains and Molehills
My apologies to Rrhain. I just wish he'd wield his philosophical scalpel against opponents who better deserve it. Everyone else here seemed to realize Brian was trying to goad AZ with words he knew would annoy the troll.
------------------
The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed.
Brad McFall

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by AdminNosy, posted 12-01-2003 11:16 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 38 of 57 (70578)
12-02-2003 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rrhain
12-01-2003 9:50 PM


quote:
What makes you think I'm not gay?
You know, I don't really care whether you are or not, although the fact that you got offended by the use of the term "gay" and the fact that you're offended by the words "dyke" and "fag" (and even brought them up as examples of offensive words) indicates that you are not. Just as if you had started talking about evolution as "humans evolving from monkeys" one would assume that you have little familiarity with evolution, what you are stating indicates that you have little familiarity with the GLBT community, merely just familiariity with GLBT issues. There's nothing wrong with that, but the point is that you should learn not to be offended by such terms.
quote:
Whether or not I am gay has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments.
"Duh."
quote:
quote:
Athletic-looking woman in a fairly butch helmet, doing archery in full body armor?
Have you ever played any fantasy role-playing games? That picture looks like it got scanned off of some D&D book.
There's a reason that the male knights are dressed to the eyebrows in armor while the female warriors seem never to be able to scrape together enough cash to afford something more than a couple of solid metal pasties and a chain loincloth...
In case you're not able to see, she is not wearing just a tiny bit of armor, she's covered in heavy armor plating. We have an athletic woman dressed to the eyebrows in thick armor... if she had short hair, there'd be no doubt in my mind. You can call "the intent of the artist" all you want, but if I saw someone who looked like that in real life, I'd think she was a dyke.
quote:
and the fact that she's at least a C cup.
So's my partner. This gal is a lot more butch than her, too. Your point?
quote:
It's not an insult, it's a statement.
Right...Brian wasn't insulting AZ.
Why don't you ask him?
And why are you offended by the words "dyke" and "fag"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Rrhain, posted 12-01-2003 9:50 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by crashfrog, posted 12-02-2003 1:13 PM Rei has replied
 Message 51 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 8:32 PM Rei has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 39 of 57 (70583)
12-02-2003 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Rrhain
12-02-2003 2:44 AM


Please tell me we're having a sarcastic exchange and not that you actually believe this....
No, I'm serious. I assumed Brian's use of the word "gay" had more to do with a sense of ornamentalism and Romanticism indicated by the spirit of the picture (as the woman's armor is clearly ornamental in nature) than it had to do with the woman's presumed sexual orientation, which Brian could not possibly know.
What's hard to believe about that? What I find hard to believe is that you of all people have offered nothing but your own rudely-phrased incredulity to suggest why my interpretation is in error.
Again, why do you think Brian was referring to sexual orientation in his use of the word "gay"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 2:44 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 8:49 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 40 of 57 (70584)
12-02-2003 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Rei
12-02-2003 12:54 PM


You can call "the intent of the artist" all you want, but if I saw someone who looked like that in real life, I'd think she was a dyke.
Why? The armor's clearly ornamental. (Or at least, is crafted in an ornamental style.) For that matter wearing armor doesn'tmake you gay, no matter how ugly the armor is. My wife played ice hockey for years. She's hardly gay.
I don't see how you're getting this "armor = gay" equasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Rei, posted 12-02-2003 12:54 PM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Rei, posted 12-02-2003 1:51 PM crashfrog has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 41 of 57 (70591)
12-02-2003 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rrhain
12-02-2003 3:01 AM


Re: If Rrhain is straight, so am I
Hi Rrhain,
Excuse me?
I seem to recall an admonishment to AZ about "yid" and "nig."
"Gay"?
I see those words as offensive.
I do not see the word ‘Gay’ as being offensive, and gay people don’t either, apparently only you do.
I did not say that the avatar is not the best one ‘because is it a ‘Gay’ knight’, I said it was not the best because the devil child is obviously better.
Hence:
LOL, you think that itty bitty gay knight is the best, did you see my devil child?
If I had said something like, how can a ‘gay’ knight be the best, then you would have a case. As it is, you are talking utter nonsense.
Because calling someone "gay" as an insult is inappropriate.
You are correct, however, I did not say it as an insult, I was talking about AZ’s claim that his avatar is the best, I did not disqualify his claim because his knight is ‘gay, I disqualified it because the devil child is better. I described his avatar as an itty bitty gay knight.
Do you think AZ went running to his mummy crying about someone calling his avatar ‘gay’! Don’t be silly.
What is offensive about nigger/kike/wop/spic/beaner/wetback/faggot/dyke?
Perhaps the fact that people are offended by them! Show me a gay person who is offended by the word ‘gay’.
Oh, I don't know...something about the implication that there is something wrong with being gay.
The implication of course is entirely in your own mind and is not the intended implication of the post. If I wanted to use the word ‘gay’ in an offensive context then there would be no arguments about it, it would be pretty clear that I was using it in an offensive context.
Tell us, Brian, why did you bring it up?
I brought it up because the image is a stereotypical ‘gay’ image.
I have a friend who looks like the stereotypical ‘butch’ lesbian, I didn’t know for sure if she was a lesbian or not until one night we were chatting and she said’ you do know I am gay don’t you’, to which I replied, well if you weren’t gay you are giving out all the signals that you are! We both had a good laugh, we both had a good drink and she is a truly wonderful person, I speak to her every weekday morning and very much enjoy her company. BTW, she read your post and she thinks you are an arsehole, however, I did defend you and say that you are normally a very sensible and articulate poster and that I believe you have read something into this that simply isn’t there, I think most observers are suggesting the same.
Acronym?
Oh, do tell me what "gay" stands for. Last one I had heard was "Got AIDS Yet?"
You really do need to stop mixing with 15 year old kids if this is the type of garbage you are taking in.
Gay is an acronym for ‘Good As You’. Over the last 5 years I have told literally thousands of kids that this is what Gay stands for.
So please do not insult me by equating my understanding of the term with that of your juvenile acquaintances.
There is a difference between describing and insulting.
Yes I know, pity you don’t see the difference in my post because it wasn’t meant as an insult. I should know I posted it, If I posted it as an insult I would be apologising by now, but that was not the intention and I take exception to the accusation.
For the record:
AdminBrian to A_Christian from here:
Hi A_Christian,
I think we all know your stance on homosexuality so could you tone down the 'gay bashing' and try and be a bit more senstive with your choice of words? All of the things you say about homosexuality can be said in a less offensive way and, whether you like it or not, homosexuals are real people with real feelings, so your words may be hurting a lot of very sincere and decent people.
Does this sound like the opinion of a homophobe?
Surely you're not implying that the picture in the avatar has sex only with other pictures, are you?
I am implying that the image in the picture is of a gay person, what is offensive in that, do I mean it in a bad way, is it an insult?
That the picture is a scene of two people of the same sex being romantic?
Is ‘being romantic’ the only thing that gay people do?
Just what was the point of calling it "gay"?
Because, as I mentioned earlier, it resembles a gay image.
What makes you think I'm not gay?
Would you be offended if someone said you were gay? I have been asked many times if I am gay and I have never been offended by it, I couldn’t care less.
I did not reject the image because I see it as a gay image, I rejected it because the devil baby is superior.
Oh, I've been very careful about keeping my sexuality out of discussions because, after all, it is irrelevant.
Yes, it is totally irrelevant.
Whether or not I am gay has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments.
Yes, and whether you are gay or not doesn’t affect the fact that you are barking up the wrong tree here.
And it isn't to appeal to lesbians.
We know why it is, it appeals to guys that these women are lesbians, guys get turned on by it, and so by that reason my observation is perfectly valid.
Right...Brian wasn't insulting AZ.
It was only an insult if he is insulted by the fact that the devil baby is superior to his avatar. I don’t follow your logic, how could it be an insult to AZ if he has a picture of a lesbian as an avatar
No, AdminNosy, this has nothing to do with me being a mathematician.
It simply has to do with homophobia.
I think it has more to do with you being bored shitless arguing with a 15 year old child for weeks on end!
You can apologise for the accusation of homophobia whenever you have a spare minute, I am a forgiving guy and know you mean well, but you have totally misread the situation. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong; however, you are in the wrong here.
The difficulty seems to be that Brian doesn't seem to think denigrating gay people is problematic.
The difficulty is entirely in your imagination Rrhain, and I am getting pissed off with the homophobe accusations. I do not see that calling someone gay is offensive, it was a description of the image, it was not a reason for relegating the avatar to a lower status than the devil child.
I'm still waiting to find out what the point was in calling the avatar "gay." Brian claims it was an acronym. Really? What does it stand for?
I would have posted earlier but certain words on the school Internet filter system do not allow some pages to load on the school computers.
So now you know, I called it gay because it is a stereotypical male fantasy lesbian warrior, Gay is an acronym for ‘Good As You’, you know that I am not homophobic by my opinion given as adminBrian.
I think you should have held fire a little over the accusations, but I understand that if you were upset by my description you may have posted in haste.
I do not think that any person, gay or not, is any less of a person than any one else, we are all equal in my opinion.
I would not, under any circumstances claim that someone’s sexuality in any way makes them less important, less human, than any one else.
I happen to have great admiration for gay people and I totally respect their choice, to claim that I intentionally insulted gay people is simply incorrect.
Best Wishes.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 3:01 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by crashfrog, posted 12-02-2003 6:18 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 49 by Rrhain, posted 12-02-2003 8:04 PM Brian has not replied

Rei
Member (Idle past 7012 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 42 of 57 (70592)
12-02-2003 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by crashfrog
12-02-2003 1:13 PM


quote:
I don't see how you're getting this "armor = gay" equasion.
It's more of the athletic, warrior look Neither is the armor that she is wearing particularly femmy. I was also pointing out that Rrhain was wrong, the picture does not show a scantily clad woman, it shows a woman clad to the eyebrows. The woman in the picture is quite butch. As I mentioned, if she had short hair (you can't tell from the picture whether she does or not), there would be no doubt in my mind.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."
[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-02-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by crashfrog, posted 12-02-2003 1:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 12-02-2003 6:25 PM Rei has replied

JIM
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 57 (70621)
12-02-2003 5:16 PM


I'm not going to get into this at all. But don't you guys think you can put all this "gay" references aside (doesn't matter on differently analyzing a statement or not and/or misinterperting it). I think we should get back onto the "point" if you can call it that of this thread which is, Who has the best avatar?". I don't want to be take the Admin form (that's Percy's job) but enough is enough. I hope Rrhain accepts Brian's analysis of the nature of this comment and the Rrhain just misinterpreted it and rightfully so. Gay jokes, comments, racial slurs aren't the basis of any valid argument or anything to be taken flippantly or facetiously.
Thanks,
JIM

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 44 of 57 (70627)
12-02-2003 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Brian
12-02-2003 1:45 PM


I am implying that the image in the picture is of a gay person, what is offensive in that, do I mean it in a bad way, is it an insult?
I hate to break it to you, but that is in fact an offensive use. When you call something or someone "gay" in a context that has nothing to do with their sexual identity - and I don't understand how you would draw inferences of sexual behavior from a headshot - then the use of the word "gay" is taken as an insult.
I'm sorry if you didn't know that, but it's generally true. It's offensive to call people "gay" in situations unrelated to sexual orientation. For instance:
Would you be offended if someone said you were gay? I have been asked many times if I am gay and I have never been offended by it, I couldn’t care less.
Well, would you be insulted, or feel it was an off-color remark, if I said "Jesus, Brian, don't be so gay." Or "what a gay avatar." Yes, there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's what makes it so insulting when the word "gay" is used to imply that something is bad. Maybe you didn't mean it, but if you did say "gay knight" and you meant "homosexual knight", you used an insulting phrase.
[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-02-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Brian, posted 12-02-2003 1:45 PM Brian has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 45 of 57 (70629)
12-02-2003 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Rei
12-02-2003 1:51 PM


Neither is the armor that she is wearing particularly femmy.
Sure it is. Yeah, it's not a mail bikini, but it's rather ornate and decorated.
The woman in the picture is quite butch.
Are you kidding? She's an elf! if anything she's pretty femme. Even short hair wouldn't make her butch. She looks way more like Anne Heche than Ellen DeGeneres. Femme, totally.
Honestly I just don't see how you can look at that picture and see a mannish woman. I see a feminine warrior in feminine armor. Maybe you don't play enough fantasy games...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Rei, posted 12-02-2003 1:51 PM Rei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Rei, posted 12-02-2003 7:00 PM crashfrog has replied

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